Aussie Finch Forum

Just reading the Environment Department's website about Crimson Finches which states that the White Bellied Crimson Finch is also in PNG. Just wondering if anyone has seen both the PNG and the Australian Crimson Finch and if so if there any major differences? (I understand for example that there is quite a difference with the Blue Faced Parrot Finch from both countries). Also, was the Crimson Finch ever imported from PNG into Australia? Can we safely say that captive White Bellied Crimson Finches in Australia definitely originates from Australian stock?

http://www.environment.gov.au/cgi-bin/s ... n_id=64443

Relevant text is "Some authors have split the white-bellied forms of the Cape York Peninsula and Papua New Guinea into two separate subspecies, N. p. albiventer on the Cape York Peninsula, and N. p. evangelinae in Papua New Guinea, on the basis of differences in plumage (Boles 1988; Higgins et al. 2006; Keast 1958; Paynter 1968). However, other authors consider the differences between the Cape York Peninsula and Papua New Guinea birds to be insufficient to warrant separation, and to probably result from individual variation associated with the age of the bird and the wearing of the plumage (Boles 1988; Ford 1986; Rand 1942; Schodde & Mason 1999). "

In my opinion they are the same species. Just recently i have seen pics of PNG WB crimsons which look very similar to Cape York species.
What probably sets them apart is their call but being geographically separated is to be expected.
Our problem we have in Australia is the expansion of the nominate BB crimson which is slowly invading the two WB populations on the West and East coast of Cape York, photographs of crossed birds with ash coloured bellies are being taken which is sad but nature takes it's course i suppose.
All WB crimsons in Europe have come from PNG through Indonesia and the pics i have are identical to ours. Breeders openly say how easy and cheap they are or were to obtain a few years ago. Craig

Craig52 wrote: ↑24 Nov 2017, 09:13 15192729_353627438323963_8129164074368203102_n.jpg15192729_353627438323963_8129164074368203102_n.jpg

Some nice pics there Craig

Thanks for sharing

Can we safely say that captive White Bellied Crimson Finches in Australia definitely originates from Australian stock?




I think we can say that it's 99% definite (which is safe enough for me) that like 95% of the Australians we hold, the WB's are descendants of wild-caught Australian forebears

BFPF's would make up that other 5%





PS . . As nature takes its course and the WB's inevitably disappear in the wild, responsible aviculturists will be sole custodians of this very special bird

WB's would be THE native finch to specialise in, if you have the experience, and skills, and genuinely want to make a difference

I have seen a black bellied bird myself in the pure form in the strong hold on the Eastcoast side. I have a photo of one bird he was with a hen.
I was told there was a colony in there area but I cannot confirm this myself. This was in a highly populated W/B area. After reading the link attached is it possible the government has tried to repopulate the area with the wrong sub species or some other natural event.

If you read the same article W/B in Australia are from Australian stock.

gomer wrote: ↑24 Nov 2017, 15:09 is it possible the government has tried to repopulate the area with the wrong sub species or some other natural event.

While that may well be what you would expect from government 'experts' . . It would have been nature at work . .

They wouldn't know a Black-Bellied Crimson from a Red-Bellied Black

It doesn't seem so long ago that the head of conservation went public with the view that it wouldn't matter if Golden-Shoulders disappeared, because very similar genes existed in the Hooded Parrot

PS . . 'They' don't include Steven Garnett, who is a very smart man (though I couldn't see him recommeding aviculture as a means of saving a sub / or species) . . but governments don't have the will (see Blackthroated Finch), or the money to implement any 'real' action




If 'Fireback' still reads these pages, he could contribute some items of interest

These areas are parts of his old 'stomping ground'

This is how they are going out PNG, it's disgusting and i believe most don't make it. This lot was on its way to India and from there who knows.

Craig52 wrote: ↑24 Nov 2017, 18:42 This is how they are going out PNG, it's disgusting and i believe most don't make it. This lot was on its way to India and from there who knows.15726389_1816687661921910_2430135381801709750_n.jpg

Jeeez that is darn right disgraceful, shipping birds in this kind of condition just shouldn't be allowed, no wander birds are disappearing and very little being bred if this kind of activity is taking place

Some people really do have a lot to answer to, there should surly be a complete ban on this and clamp down on it once and for all, any birds taken from the wild for breeding purposes should only be taken under specific licenses and only registered and licensed breeders should have these birds,

There's just simply to many birds being taken and half of the time no one knows exactly where there actually going

I sure hope something can be sorted before it's all too late

The odds are not good that the majority of these finches will survive the move and find suitable avairy homes. While those that buy them will no doubt have good intentions they will also need to have the space, knowledge and guidance to do what is needed.
LML