some crimson pics

Black Bellied & White Bellied.
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Craig52
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G'day Matty,I just checked out those pics again and the cock bird is showing black feathers in the crown so he must be very young and not fully moulted yet so they are the Northern WA race. Cheers Craig
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mattymeischke
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I hope mine gets the black crown, in the my second last photo it looks like it may be coming through. Is the large pic on this website - http://www.milenkaya.org/ - an example of the NW type? This one from Lake Argyle had more extensive black areas - http://www.lakeargyle.com.au/index.php? ... 59&page=59 (fourth picture on the top row): an older bird, perhaps, or another grade of black-headedness.


Keast (1961) recognised the differences between NW and NE black-bellied birds but did not regard them as subspecies because there were some black-capped birds amongst the NE population and some grey-capped ones amongst the NW birds, though perhaps this is another case of inaccurate museum label data giving misleading localities. He did regard the division between the PNG and Cape York white-bellied birds as valid, because of consistent plumage differences (the yellow around the white belly in the PNG birds, and the greenish colour around the back of the head).
Avid amateur aviculturalist; I keep mostly australian and foreign finches.
The art is long, the life so short; the critical moment is fleeting and experience can be misleading, crisis is difficult....... (Hippocrates)
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Craig52
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G'day Matty,i have seen wild crimsoms in Qld and they all had the grey crowns so the museum lableing must be incorrect. I have no pics of the the NE crimsons other than my own WB crimsons which have grey crowns but i have plenty of pics taken of crimsons taken in the NW around Kunnunarra.
If you don't mind i will email some pics to you to put up. Cheers Craig
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Tiaris
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Years ago we bred Qld Bloods & they had distinctive grey crowns, pinkish legs & feet, maroonish red & a bluish base to the lower mandible similar to WB Bloods. At the same time a friend bred from wild-caught Kimberley Bloods which were black on the crown, had more yellowish legs & feet, scarlet/crimson red & totally lacked the bluish base to the lower mandible. I believe these are fairly typical of the eastern & western forms. Whether they should be classed as subspecies/races is arguable (I would rather they were) as the differences are more noticeable than some other recognised finch subspecies.
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mattymeischke
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crocnshas wrote:If you don't mind i will email some pics to you to put up
No worries, thank you for pics.
kunnunurra crimson 1.jpg
kunnunurra crimson 2.jpg
Tiaris wrote:Years ago we bred Qld Bloods & they had distinctive grey crowns, pinkish legs & feet, maroonish red & a bluish base to the lower mandible similar to WB Bloods. At the same time a friend bred from wild-caught Kimberley Bloods which were black on the crown, had more yellowish legs & feet, scarlet/crimson red & totally lacked the bluish base to the lower mandible.
These are presumably interbred beyond recovery in our captive stock, given the low numbers held, or is it possible someone is keeping pure 'Kimberly bloods'? The differences in the body and soft part colours is interesting, and not something I'd heard before.
Tiaris wrote:Whether they should be classed as subspecies/races is arguable (I would rather they were) as the differences are more noticeable than some other recognised finch subspecies.
The whole question of what constitues a species/subspecies/race is in hopeless disarray right now; however these geographically and phenotypically distinct groups are clearly "Evolutionarily Significant Units" (to use one of the current concepts).
It is of conservation significance ( and of not inconsiderable interest to breeders) to preserve intraspecific diversity. However, and as you have pointed out elsewhere, these minor intraspecific variations are poorly described and many have probably been lost before they have been described.
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Avid amateur aviculturalist; I keep mostly australian and foreign finches.
The art is long, the life so short; the critical moment is fleeting and experience can be misleading, crisis is difficult....... (Hippocrates)
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Tiaris
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Most of the Crimsons I've seen lately in captivity have been predominantly the western origin traits - brighter red, yellowish legs, black crowns on mature males & lack of blue bill base. The western forms are visually more attractive anyway. Another interesting difference was that the Qld form were far less aggressive temperament compared to WA ones.
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Myzomela
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This is all great information folks, much of which is not available in print.
The expertise and experience on this forum is gold.
Well done to all contributors.! :thumbup:
Research; evaluate;observe;act
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finchbreeder
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And in the avairy breeders tend to select for the brightest colours and nicest temperament. So that they have been mixed and selected in the past would not be unexpected. Either way they are a loverly looking little bird, and best of luck in breeding them.
LML
LML
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Craig52
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Tiaris wrote:Most of the Crimsons I've seen lately in captivity have been predominantly the western origin traits - brighter red, yellowish legs, black crowns on mature males & lack of blue bill base. The western forms are visually more attractive anyway. Another interesting difference was that the Qld form were far less aggressive temperament compared to WA ones.
I agree Tiaris,but the red on the Western forms are darker crimson not brighter red as seen in my pics.You are right regarding the Easterns temperament as many years ago they were the ones more sought after and the Western ones that were trapped and sold to Eastern dealers were probably the ones that gave the crimsons their tag as extremely aggressive,and they were.
I have a mate in central Northern Vic who breeds both seperately and in his opinion,the black crowned WA birds are far more aggressive to the NE grey headed birds but wouldn't be with out either and sells his birds as either WA or Eastern variety.Surprisingly,he sells more of the WA black headed birds than the other and you are right,they are a stunning looking bird with that black crown yellow legs and darker crimsom colour. Cheers Craig
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mattymeischke
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I think his black crown is coming through more clearly now:
blood cock showing black head.jpg
This morning I think they have fledged their first chick. They have been busy for some weeks and I had been hoping to see results soon. The suspected fledgeling looks like a star fledgling except it is duller brown and more evenly coloured (the front is the same brown as the back). It has a 'firetail', ie: red fledging tail. The cock is hanging around it looking agitated when I approach.

I have heard that the hard part with bloods is getting them from fledging to independence; I have lots of low, dry cover in the aviary (after the Mike Fidler method).
Any other tips?
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Avid amateur aviculturalist; I keep mostly australian and foreign finches.
The art is long, the life so short; the critical moment is fleeting and experience can be misleading, crisis is difficult....... (Hippocrates)
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