Last years young are this years breeders

Black Bellied & White Bellied.
Includes Species Profile
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Trilobite
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Posts: 324
Joined: 03 May 2011, 17:28
Location: Brisbane

Hi all,
I don't want to hijack this wonderful thread on the WB's so I will keep it quite short, if needs be I will pull this reply out and start a new thread to leave this one alone. I am certainly no where near as qualified on paper as to dispute some of Mikes findings but I have to question the statement that in the wild they engaged in communal nesting, happy to stand corrected. I fully believe that until you see the setups you cant make a comment as to other success and failings wrt the crimson. I have to question some of the broader findings/misrepresentations about the crimson in general in the aviculture world. I started with running three pair in a single mixed species planted aviary (8*4*3) with no overt aggression, dominance/pecking order yes, but aggression no. Yes the crimson will stand its ground (particularly when it comes to nest protection - if anything enters within approx a meter of the nest watch out) but not to the point of willful and malicious damage to other species, just some wrestling. Most damage is done by keeping other of its own species away from a single food source so they end up running out of steam so to speak - easy to remedy that one. I also think that the bad wrap comes from older avicultural setups putting crimsons into a 900 wide * 2.4 deep * 2m high cells (aviary) devoid of any refuge/hiding spaces. Some anecdotal evidence suggests that any level of inbreeding will cause aggression to increase - easy to remedy that one as well in the BB form maybe not so for the WB's. Having said enough I think Craig and his network are doing the right thing from what we can see on the forum and their effort to outbreed and get good lines going is beyond encouraging - Well done Craig :thumbup: :clap:
Cheers
Trilobite
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Craig52
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Posts: 4979
Joined: 11 Nov 2011, 19:26
Location: victoria

Thanks for the encouragement Trilobite and thanks for the understanding that i have to breed these birds in small 2.8x1.0x 2.1 controlled aviaries,i have bred BB crimsoms in multiple prs in my former large aviaries with limited aggession towards other birds and a pecking order to their own kind with fair results.But as you know,with limited stock of WB's,this is the only way to go,with myself and a few others,we are spreading the gene pool around a bit now and what is being produced are absolutely beautiful looking birds with the white coming up higher in the chest and cutting off square across the top,not rounded off and lower like in black bellies. Cheers and Thanks Craig
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Ripley
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Posts: 218
Joined: 30 Sep 2011, 23:56
Location: Old Toongabbie, NSW

I look forward to seeing a pair at Douglas Park...

Cheers
Ripley
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murf
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Posts: 212
Joined: 25 Nov 2009, 20:39
Location: Victoria

Any chance of more photos Craig? I really enjoy their beauty and it keeps me wanting.....Really pleased to read a more positive tone on the crimson in the last year or two. I'm really pleased with my BB in a mixed collection.
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vettepilot_6
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Joined: 07 Aug 2011, 17:50
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murf wrote:I'm really pleased with my BB in a mixed collection.
I'm interested to hear more on this? What are they kept with? How many BB's are in the aviary? What size is Aviary? Cheers :thumbup:
The Bitterness of Poor Quality Remains Long after the Sweetness of Cut Price is Forgotten
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SamDavis
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Posts: 2578
Joined: 03 Jan 2011, 14:01
Location: Douglas Park NSW

Ripley wrote:I look forward to seeing a pair at Douglas Park...

Cheers
Ripley
Me too!
I've got the mesh and extra SHS ready to build a small bank of specialist aviaries for them (and other species).
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Craig52
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Joined: 11 Nov 2011, 19:26
Location: victoria

murf wrote:Any chance of more photos Craig? I really enjoy their beauty and it keeps me wanting.....Really pleased to read a more positive tone on the crimson in the last year or two. I'm really pleased with my BB in a mixed collection.
Ok,i will get some pics of the new boys and my setup soon,my aviaries are not cells like others seem to think,they have a large pot of guinea grass in the front of the aviaries and brush fixed to one side wall.
Got to charge the batteries up in the camera. Craig
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Netsurfer
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Posts: 380
Joined: 30 Jun 2010, 10:30
Location: Sydney, NSW

crocnshas wrote: Yes i do believe the Cape York WB's are remnants of the New Guinea WB specie when islands were joined to the Australian continent, others may not agree saying that their belly colour is more creamy than white,some of my cock birds bellies are creamy white when caught up,but hanging on the wire in the sun they are snow white.
As i breed my birds one pr per aviary on their own,i am unable to tell you about aggression to other birds but i'm sure Trilobite can fill you in about his black belly crimsons. Craig
I read their distributin in the wild is from Cape York throughout the Papua New Guinea and parts of Indonesia. I wasn't able to find other then Neochmia phaeton evangelinae and the nominate BB Neochmia phaeton phaeton subspecis so I asume all WB are Neochmia phaeton evangelinae. But I'm curious what do the Indonesian birds look like, I know the Indonesian Zebra finches are almost half the size of the Australian native Zebras therefore the Indonesian WB Crimsons might be smaler or larger. Not that you can tell the size from a photo but can anyone find a photo of Indonesian birds on the net?

As for keeping them in communal aviary I think it is possible, I know I kept them, they can't be more aggressive then then the Madagascar Weavers and certaily cannot case more demage to other birds or their fledglings then the Weavers can. I kept and bred Weavers in communal aviary as well!

It is worth mentioning there are Eastern and Western BB Crimsons, as well as variety found on one of the Islands just of Northern Territory, don't know about their size but probably the prettiest of the three BB varieties.
http://www.environment.gov.au/cgi-bin/s ... n_id=64443

Other interesting links:
http://www.aviceda.org/abid/birdimages. ... pagesize=1

http://www.birdway.com.au/estrildidae/c ... _91525.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/grrls ... 1/dec/10/3
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murf
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Posts: 212
Joined: 25 Nov 2009, 20:39
Location: Victoria

Hi vettepilot_6, I tried a PM to you but received a"requested users to be added do not exist." Would appreciate help so I can respond to your query.
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vettepilot_6
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murf wrote:Hi vettepilot_6, I tried a PM to you but received a"requested users to be added do not exist." Would appreciate help so I can respond to your query.
Thats welrd? Maybe Bluebutterfly could work that out? Or just send email to [email protected] cheers Dave
The Bitterness of Poor Quality Remains Long after the Sweetness of Cut Price is Forgotten
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