Gouldian head colour preference

[Tiaris]

Check this out. Is this true?
http://retractionwatch.com/2015/07/23/d ... iterature/

Thanks GouldianGuy. That is certainly an unfortunate development. It is, however, a different study to the research regarding partner selection being influenced by head colour. Were you confusing the two studies when you made your original comment, or is there further evidence of "problematic data" regarding the head colour selection study too? I'm not trying to interrogate you; I simply want to know which manuscripts I can ignore and which I can consider "legit".

Cheers,

Ross

This one may indeed be a different paper to the head colour preference one as such, but really it is an extension of the head colour preference research as it takes the "genetic incompatibility of different head colours" notion further by postulating that hens deliberately distort the proportions of sexes of their progeny in mixed head colour pairings as a response to stress brought about by being paired to a partner of different head colour as they are claimed to be genetically incompatible. This whole area of research is closely linked and relies heavily on the conclusions drawn in the earlier research.
I have never believed the genetic incompatibility theory in relation to head colours as it has not even slightly borne itself out to be true over a lifetime of Gouldian breeding experience. As I see it, the different head colours are no more or less genetically incompatible than are, for example, purple-breasted and white-breasted Gouldians. The head colours are simply natural colour mutations of the same species.

[hanabi]

This one may indeed be a different paper to the head colour preference one as such, but really it is an extension of the head colour preference research as it takes the "genetic incompatibility of different head colours" notion further by postulating that hens deliberately distort the proportions of sexes of their progeny in mixed head colour pairings as a response to stress brought about by being paired to a partner of different head colour as they are claimed to be genetically incompatible. This whole area of research is closely linked and relies heavily on the conclusions drawn in the earlier research.

My understanding of this redacted paper is a little different. Yes they use incompatible (different head colour) as well as compatible (same head colour) pairings, but they do state that, after hormonal treatment using implants, there was insignificant difference between corticosterone levels (and thus stress levels) between incompatible and compatible pairings:

Similar to previous studies, at pairing (i.e. pre-implant), maternal corticosterone levels were significantly
higher for females that were paired to phenotypically black ‘incompatible’ males than females breeding with red compatible mates.
After the corticosterone and metyrapone treatments, however, there were no significant differences in maternal corticosterone
levels between females paired to red and black males, although corticosterone-treated females paired to phenotypically black males (‘incompatible’) tended to have higher, albeit not significantly, levels of circulating corticosterone than females paired to phenotypically compatible males

and in the Discussion section:

Furthermore, post-implant corticosterone concentrations of corticosterone-implanted females breeding with compatible
and ‘incompatible’ mates were comparable.

So I think the redaction of this paper does not invalidate the claims regarding Gouldian partner selection based on head colour, because the use of hormone patches overwhelms any natural hormonal response due to partner incompatibility. The redaction does put into question the relationship between corticosterone levels and sex selection/offspring bias, which I find very strange indeed, because this relationship is well known, having being independently verified by many other researchers.

I have never believed the genetic incompatibility theory in relation to head colours as it has not even slightly borne itself out to be true over a lifetime of Gouldian breeding experience.

This is what intrigues me most actually, the "incompatibility" between research and what breeders are observing. Perhaps head-colour preference does exist, except it is far more subtle than we assume? Or perhaps we will see further redactions of published research? Hopefully not.

Cheers,

Ross

[Tiaris]

As to whether a head colour preference exists as proposed, all I can say is that myself and at least a handful of other multi-decade Gouldian breeders (who I am in regular contact with) who are extremely experienced and highly attuned to observing minute details in their birds have all found on the basis of many decades of combined Gouldian breeding seasons that no such preference exists. This is based on partner selection, compatibility, clutch-size, rearing success and sex ratios with large numbers of Gouldian pairs producing huge numbers of young birds over the very long-term.
A short-term study in one Gouldian collection by scientists reaching a species-wide conclusion contrary to this vast body of experience is totally unconvincing to me at least.

[hanabi]

A short-term study in one Gouldian collection by scientists reaching a species-wide conclusion contrary to this vast body of experience is totally unconvincing to me at least.

Fair enough Tiaris, and I'm not in any way questioning your, or other veteran breeders', observations. I'm simply searching for information regarding the suggestion that the research data on partner selection based on head colour had perhaps been "doctored".

Regarding breeder observations being different to the research studies, I wonder if it might be possible for wild-type Gouldians to act differently to those that have been domesticated for many decades? Over enough generations might they lose their preference for partners of the same head colour?

PS: I also have not seen any obvious preference for same head colour.

[Tiaris]

Maybe so. They are reasonable questions to explore. I know of a few with pure wild-type Gouldians but they are all black-headed.

[GouldianGuy]

So I think the redaction of this paper does not invalidate the claims regarding Gouldian partner selection based on head colour, because the use of hormone patches overwhelms any natural hormonal response due to partner incompatibility. The redaction does put into question the relationship between corticosterone levels and sex selection/offspring bias, which I find very strange indeed, because this relationship is well known, having being independently verified by many other researchers.

I think what this redaction shows it that one cannot trust the content. Was there fabrication of data in previous studies!? One has to scrutinize deeply everything that has been published by this author. Ideally this would be retested by another researcher without bias or connection to the questionable author. The best way to confirm findings is to reproduce the findings.

[E Orix]

I am not going to comment on who's findings are right or wrong, What I will say is those involved through the Save the Gouldian Fund are very reputable people.
Another point, Gouldians that are only a few generations from wild stock react and breed quite differently to the totally
domesticated Gouldians kept in our aviaries.

[Craig52]

Yes i agree David, the birds in the study were wild caught on permit so could be/are totally different to our domesticated gouldians. Craig