Hi
I've never kept Star finches but I have just inherited a single specimen. It appears more variegated than any of the native sub species, but maybe not?? So I'm wondering if anyone can tell me what they'd call it. Sorry about the quality of the photos. I just quickly took a couple when I had a minute. And just to demonstrate my complete novice status, am I correct in assuming it's a boy?
Cheers
Michael
What version of Star is this :)
- arthur
- ...............................
- Posts: 1995
- Joined: 13 Mar 2009, 10:22
It's a boy . . and it's a pied, which is where there is a bit of a dilemma
Most pieds are regarded as 'dominant' in their genetic transfer . . which should mean that mated with a 'normal type' hen all babies will be pieds
Some pieds though are 'recessive' in transmission . . which is a different kettle of fish altogether . . and can be discussed later
But thirdly this bird looks like it might be a 'grizzle-pied' . . which bird geneticist Terry Martin believes is the result of the actions of more than one pair of genes
As a beginner this will be all uncharted territory . . and gobbledygook . . but there are people who can help
If you feel confident enough, I suggest that you put it to a normal hen and keep ALL young . . whether pied or not
If you don't feel confident enough, seek an experienced breeder of Stars that you can trust, and come to some arrangement regarding breeding and sharing of young
This could be quite a valuable bird in 'mutation' terms . . and possibly in monetary terms
Also tell the breeder from whom you 'inherited' the bird to keep all of his stock as they will be important in any breeding program that is set up
Most pieds are regarded as 'dominant' in their genetic transfer . . which should mean that mated with a 'normal type' hen all babies will be pieds
Some pieds though are 'recessive' in transmission . . which is a different kettle of fish altogether . . and can be discussed later
But thirdly this bird looks like it might be a 'grizzle-pied' . . which bird geneticist Terry Martin believes is the result of the actions of more than one pair of genes
As a beginner this will be all uncharted territory . . and gobbledygook . . but there are people who can help
If you feel confident enough, I suggest that you put it to a normal hen and keep ALL young . . whether pied or not
If you don't feel confident enough, seek an experienced breeder of Stars that you can trust, and come to some arrangement regarding breeding and sharing of young
This could be quite a valuable bird in 'mutation' terms . . and possibly in monetary terms
Also tell the breeder from whom you 'inherited' the bird to keep all of his stock as they will be important in any breeding program that is set up
- Finchfam
- ...............................
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- Joined: 31 Dec 2018, 02:57
- Location: Brisbane Qld
Wow, I could say I suddenly feel a sense of responsibility... but that would be like having a favourite child - just not on! Still, that was not an answer I was expecting! All jokes aside, I noticed when I first started keeping birds many moons ago, once you've got a routine sorted out that works, fussing more over a 'special' bird doesn't seem to do anything except make them worry about why you're in their face all the time.
I really appreciate you taking the time to detail some of the finer points on Star colour mutation genetics. You've roped me in I must say. I've always been a bit torn between maintaining pure native stock and experimenting with genetics but I have to confess a special attraction to running a breeding program where you're not totally certain of how the next generation will look. So it wouldn't feel quite the same if I 'sired him out'. I will take your advice and look for a quality normal hen for him. I'm not sure if there are any breeders in my area (south east Queensland) you could recommend perhaps by private message? I'm in the Qld Finch Society so I can go through my contacts there if you'd prefer.
Arthur you obviously know your Stars. In your experience, are there any special housing or dietary considerations I should observe?
Finally, in response to your last sentence, sadly I really did inherit the bird, the previous owner passed away last year. No-one else in his family shared his love for finches quite as much he did so they would not have been aware of anything special about this little fellow.
Thanks again for your comprehensive response.
I really appreciate you taking the time to detail some of the finer points on Star colour mutation genetics. You've roped me in I must say. I've always been a bit torn between maintaining pure native stock and experimenting with genetics but I have to confess a special attraction to running a breeding program where you're not totally certain of how the next generation will look. So it wouldn't feel quite the same if I 'sired him out'. I will take your advice and look for a quality normal hen for him. I'm not sure if there are any breeders in my area (south east Queensland) you could recommend perhaps by private message? I'm in the Qld Finch Society so I can go through my contacts there if you'd prefer.
Arthur you obviously know your Stars. In your experience, are there any special housing or dietary considerations I should observe?
Finally, in response to your last sentence, sadly I really did inherit the bird, the previous owner passed away last year. No-one else in his family shared his love for finches quite as much he did so they would not have been aware of anything special about this little fellow.
Thanks again for your comprehensive response.
When all is said and done, more is said than done.
- arthur
- ...............................
- Posts: 1995
- Joined: 13 Mar 2009, 10:22
Put "Breeding Star Finches" into 'google, and sort the wheat from the chaff . .
Go through the QFS . . A few visits to aviaries will reveal the people you should or should not listen to
My best tip would be . . Green seeding grasses and soft fresh greenfood . . and plenty of it
Quite willing to help with any genetics issues and pairings . . If I can
I am sure that Craig will 'chip in' shortly, to share some of his comprehensive knowledge on Stars and their mutations
Go through the QFS . . A few visits to aviaries will reveal the people you should or should not listen to
My best tip would be . . Green seeding grasses and soft fresh greenfood . . and plenty of it
Quite willing to help with any genetics issues and pairings . . If I can
I am sure that Craig will 'chip in' shortly, to share some of his comprehensive knowledge on Stars and their mutations
- finchbreeder
- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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- Location: Midwest of West. Aust. Coast
- Location: Midwest of West.Aust.Coast
Do enjoy developing this mutation. - you will have some very jealous people out here. Not a big fan of stars myself, but still look forward to hearing - from time to time - how you go with this very attractive bird.
LML
LML
LML
- E Orix
- ...............................
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- Joined: 29 May 2009, 23:30
- Location: Howlong on NSW/Vic Border 30km from Albury
- Location: Howlong NSW
While on the topic of Stars, is anyone breeding normal body coloured yellow headed stars.
I have had my colony for many years and would like to add some new birds to the existing ones.
But only if they are pure to the race
I have had my colony for many years and would like to add some new birds to the existing ones.
But only if they are pure to the race
- arthur
- ...............................
- Posts: 1995
- Joined: 13 Mar 2009, 10:22
https://www.avianlife.com.au/post/the-s ... vDTxXVbVvM
Pieds not mentioned . . but for general overall info'
Pieds not mentioned . . but for general overall info'
- Craig52
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- Location: victoria
Here's a pic of pieds.
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- Craig52
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Sorry i forgot, if it is partial cinnamon it will be sexlinked so mating to a normal hen will produce normal hens and possibly cinnamon hens and all cocks will split for cinnamon or possibly grizzle pied.
- Finchfam
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- Posts: 27
- Joined: 31 Dec 2018, 02:57
- Location: Brisbane Qld
Thanks Craig (and Arthur). I'm enjoying the conversation. I do have a question for you at the end but prior to that I'll just make a few more remarks about this boy's appearance. Just looking at your photo Craig, I can confirm that my boy looks quite dissimilar to the birds pictured although I can see yours appear to be yellows and that may influence colouration despite having the same pied mutation. Also although I'm no expert on Stars, I'm not too bad with colour genetics. There doesn't appear to be any expression of cinnamon at all (compared to photos of cinnamon birds I've seen). So if grizzle pied recessive is in any way co-dominant with cinnamon recessive it would appear to have masked virtually all cinnamon colouration regardless. So my safest assumption, given that cinnamon is sex-linked recessive, is that at most I think he would have one cinnamon gene. I won't venture into discussion on Terry Martin's opinion about the involvement of multiple genes other than to say if he is correct then surely all gene mutations involved in grizzle pied are recessive or else some form of colour mutation would express if any of the genes were dominant.
So my question is: if he is a grizzle pied, being autosomal recessive, won't I need to find a grizzle pied hen to produce phenotypically grizzle pied offspring? Otherwise all offspring will be grizzle pied splits (ignores the Terry Martin possibility of multiple genes for the sake of simplicity.)
So my question is: if he is a grizzle pied, being autosomal recessive, won't I need to find a grizzle pied hen to produce phenotypically grizzle pied offspring? Otherwise all offspring will be grizzle pied splits (ignores the Terry Martin possibility of multiple genes for the sake of simplicity.)
When all is said and done, more is said than done.