Peterst Twinspots

For questions about any species that doesn't have it's own area and for general information on foreign birds.
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arthur
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Fireback wrote: But as more birds were kept and bred by a larger number of breeders, this made them more affordable and they could be obtained for $500.00 a pair. Cheers
I think that the real reason that the price got to +/- $500 was that most were 'duds' by that stage of the cycle and $500 was the most that people would gamble on getting a pair that would produce

The rest of course is history :(
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arthur
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Quote from an article in "Mackay Aviculture" July 2005, on Dybowski's

"It appears that these African finches are on the way out, because of the limited available gene pool

Though not brightly coloured, these attractive little birds are keenly sought after

However poor breeding results seem to be the order of the day with the birds currently available; and their price of $600 - $800 per pair probably reflects a compromise between their scarcity, and their unreliability as producers."
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toothlessjaws
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So is that it then for the Peters' twinspot? if so, that's totally devastating to me because that's my one day species that i hoped to keep.

I was sure i read an article not that long ago that suggested a few breeders had mastered this species and thing were looking up. :cry:
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Tiaris
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yep, they're done.
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toothlessjaws
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yeah, i saw the 2014 national finch census online has only a few individuals listed. what a terrible shame, the peters' twinspots are hands-down my favourite finch.

i wonder how realistic a legal import is? of course all finch species are going to be absent form the live import list, but apparently a consortium of fanciers just brought in a batch of new chicken breeds, showing that the authorities are at least importing one kind of bird post bird-flu (and the most likely to have it!).....
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Myzomela
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Imports are a long process and theoretically possible if you have immense patience, very deep pockets, and constantly nag the authorities.
However, the real question is where would you source birds such as Peter's Twinspots from? They would never allow import of wild-caught birds, only closed-rung aviary bred stock from "clean" countries. i.e. no Bird flu/Newcastle's disease.
This narrows things down a lot.
The chickens mentioned above were brought in as eggs form "clean" flocks. I don't think that this is practical with finches.
This discussion has been kicking around for years, but more recently I have become a little more optimistic about the possibility although it is still a long road ahead.
Research; evaluate;observe;act
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toothlessjaws
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hey myzomela,

yeeup. it'd be tricky alright. I'm pretty sure i recall seeing twinspots for sale at a bird dealers in France and given all the info (and low price tags) online assume they are not that uncommon in aviculture in Europe (though i don't know if EU import form wild still?). I may be making this up but i have a hunch the fowl imported recently were from the UK, so that might be a start....

As for the import protocols i know a few bits and pieces. There are a bunch of lengthy hoops to jump - including getting an IRA, the species on live import list etc.

in short A LOT of paperwork and a lot of $$$$ and a lot of time is going to be required. I imagine that its going to be A LOT easier to import species already present in the country however surely all those parrot species that came in in the 90's (?) were not already in the country.

but still i'm sceptical, zoos haven't had any luck bringing in new species (and i was informed they tried), but then again zoos have had ZERO interest in propagating any of the rare species that ARE available to then via aviculture. Its a terrible shame, as the sort of expert, non-monetary and slightly less selfish management zoos can offer could have saved a lot of species already lost.

i'm thinking out loud here....

i saw the last year census had only a couple of peters' twinspots individuals listed. anyone know whats been their demise? inbreeding, difficulty? greed? circumstantial?

i imagine they are the first of a number of birds to go extinct here in the very near future....
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Craig52
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[quote="toothlessjaws"

i saw the last year census had only a couple of peters' twinspots individuals listed. anyone know whats been their demise? inbreeding, difficulty? greed? circumstantial?

i imagine they are the first of a number of birds to go extinct here in the very near future....[/quote]



Hi TJ, all of the above including breeding a lot more males than females,inappropriate housing as they can't handle cold or wet and drafty conditions as they nest on the floor of the aviary.
The original birds were bred in hot house conditions so i think they are/were a bit soft imo. Craig
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toothlessjaws
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i have to say i'd rather soft birds than no birds!

to be honest, i don't understand at all the australian "breed em tough" attitude (but thats a whole other debate).

in any event, does anyone know if their are any individuals left at all?
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Tiaris
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toothlessjaws wrote:hey myzomela,

yeeup. it'd be tricky alright. I'm pretty sure i recall seeing twinspots for sale at a bird dealers in France and given all the info (and low price tags) online assume they are not that uncommon in aviculture in Europe (though i don't know if EU import form wild still?). I may be making this up but i have a hunch the fowl imported recently were from the UK, so that might be a start....

As for the import protocols i know a few bits and pieces. There are a bunch of lengthy hoops to jump - including getting an IRA, the species on live import list etc.

in short A LOT of paperwork and a lot of $$$$ and a lot of time is going to be required. I imagine that its going to be A LOT easier to import species already present in the country however surely all those parrot species that came in in the 90's (?) were not already in the country.

but still i'm sceptical, zoos haven't had any luck bringing in new species (and i was informed they tried), but then again zoos have had ZERO interest in propagating any of the rare species that ARE available to then via aviculture. Its a terrible shame, as the sort of expert, non-monetary and slightly less selfish management zoos can offer could have saved a lot of species already lost.

i'm thinking out loud here....

i saw the last year census had only a couple of peters' twinspots individuals listed. anyone know whats been their demise? inbreeding, difficulty? greed? circumstantial?

i imagine they are the first of a number of birds to go extinct here in the very near future....
The parrot species imported were all verified as being here prior to allowing them for importation. This is a strict condition for allowing any species for importing.

Peter's twinspots are far from the first species to be in this position in Australian aviculture - their most closely related predecessor, the Dybowski's Twinspot went the same way & it was a far tougher species (climate-wise) and there are many other finch species who have done the same.

As with any species' demise there is a combination of factors. They started from a very small original genetic base, as Craig said they were bred in very controlled indoor conditions (which did of itself soften them further IMO), they are a very aggressive species to their own kind so this led to some losses where stock was not managed accordingly, their "softness" (need for indoor breeding) deterred many Australian breeders (including myself) from considering them a viable prospect to keep & breed & their high price would also have deterred many especially when combined with their known reputation for softness in conventional outdoor aviaries. In Peters Twinspots case, the main tipping point following all of these factors seemed to be the main 2 breeders almost simultaneously getting out of them. This is sometimes all it takes when the majority of very few successful breeders for a species are no longer in the picture.

I'd say there is likely to be the odd old bird still about here or there (probably all males) but very little prospect of a resurgence of any kind without further stock imported. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for legal finch imports to occur.
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