Do they?

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garymc
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Location: Western Australia

I have read in a few articles that St Helenas will take young from other birds nests. I know that (as will orange cheeked waxbills on the odd occasion) pick up dead youngsters and take them up to the "cock" nest, but has anyone actually seen them take live chicks?

I am of the opinion that it may at times give the species an undeserved bad name but am open to have my opinion changed.
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Tiaris
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Location: Coffs Harbour

Yes Gary, I've seen Saints take live ones a couple of times in the now distant past. I didn't see them actually take them from nests but carrying the live young to decorate their dummy nest. Quite a few times carrying deadies too.
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E Orix
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Location: Howlong on NSW/Vic Border 30km from Albury
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I find it hard to believe that Saints would actually enter a nest.They are not an agressive specie at all.
Many species will pick up dead birds and if a live chick is on the floor then I possibly think it may pick it up.
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desertbirds
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Tiaris wrote:Yes Gary, I've seen Saints take live ones a couple of times in the now distant past. I didn't see them actually take them from nests but carrying the live young to decorate their dummy nest. Quite a few times carrying deadies too.
Perhaps it`s a trait that domestication has bred out of them.The only problem i have with the theory of a dummy nest is ' why the heck would you build it right on top of your real nest and then line it with a smelly corpse ? ` Just doesn`t add up to me .
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Craig52
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desertbirds wrote:
Tiaris wrote:Yes Gary, I've seen Saints take live ones a couple of times in the now distant past. I didn't see them actually take them from nests but carrying the live young to decorate their dummy nest. Quite a few times carrying deadies too.
Perhaps it`s a trait that domestication has bred out of them.The only problem i have with the theory of a dummy nest is ' why the heck would you build it right on top of your real nest and then line it with a smelly corpse ? ` Just doesn`t add up to me .
Its not a dummy nest DB,it's the cocks nest where he sleeps and he becomes the tasty morsal for predators eg snakes,he would be the first to leave the nest if one turned up and the snake would find dead smelly things in there and leave whilst the hen sits tight on eggs/young in the bottom nest.Who says finches don't have brains :lol: Craig
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Tiaris
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I'm convinced it is a dummy nest. Notice the dummy nest is conspicuously open compared to the hidden downward-pointing tight enclosed entrance tunnel to the real chamber. It is also adorned with bright objects (feathers, flower petals, stones, charcoal,etc) and corpses which are also placed outside its entrance and on the surrounding ground if the nest is on or near the ground. This, at a glance, resembles a previously raided nest which has nothing still active in it. A first inspection by a likely predator is likely to have its attention concentrated on the dummy nest to at least allow a hasty escape out the secret tunnel below by any bird able to fly. Wild Saint Helenas and other Estrilda waxbills often nest on or very close to the ground so may be subject to many more ground-based predators than other genera.
I find it fascinating that a young bird many generations from wild ancestry can still instinctively build an intricate structure exactly to its species' grand plan based on nothing other than natural instinct. We are so far removed from natural instinct that we struggle to comprehend its power and precision when we see it displayed by other creatures.
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Tiaris
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The only reason why my observations of Saints carrying live young was in the distant past, is its been a while since I've had large numbers of Saints & been just as long since I've had lots of time to just sit & watch my birds for hours which I used to do.
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desertbirds
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Tiaris wrote:I'm convinced it is a dummy nest. Notice the dummy nest is conspicuously open compared to the hidden downward-pointing tight enclosed entrance tunnel to the real chamber. It is also adorned with bright objects (feathers, flower petals, stones, charcoal,etc) and corpses which are also placed outside its entrance and on the surrounding ground if the nest is on or near the ground. This, at a glance, resembles a previously raided nest which has nothing still active in it. A first inspection by a likely predator is likely to have its attention concentrated on the dummy nest to at least allow a hasty escape out the secret tunnel below by any bird able to fly. Wild Saint Helenas and other Estrilda waxbills often nest on or very close to the ground so may be subject to many more ground-based predators than other genera.
I find it fascinating that a young bird many generations from wild ancestry can still instinctively build an intricate structure exactly to its species' grand plan based on nothing other than natural instinct. We are so far removed from natural instinct that we struggle to comprehend its power and precision when we see it displayed by other creatures.
I understand the theory Tiaris but snakes in particular would not be put off by the dead corpes and would still be able to smell the live birds, not having to eat all the time im certain they would explore both nests for a feed as they have plenty of time to do so. We`ve removed snakes from around an aviary here only to find them back again within a few days. They will spend days pushing at the wire around the entire aviary looking for a gap or weak spot(top and bottom if they can get to the top) so a tightly enclosed nest would be no obstacle at all. Some research i`ve read on Emu Wrens also suggests snakes will come early in the season and investigate nests only to return when there are chicks to be had .There is obviously something in it but its not clear to me that its a reliable predator deterant .
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E Orix
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Location: Howlong on NSW/Vic Border 30km from Albury
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My line of Saint Helenas must have had the male nest concept bred out of them.
I will continue to check but my birds build basically a tight ball shape with a small downward facing entry and then have trigger pieces virtually
hiding the entry.
At the moment we could have 40 pair here so I am not taking a single pair.
I still find it difficult to imagine a Saint entering another birds nest.
Mind you a very large proportion of finches will eat carrion and Saints are one.
The bird that seems to commonly take dead birds to their nests are Java Sparrows from my experience.
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Tiaris
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I'm not saying they would necessarily be totally put off, but more distracted by the dummy nest for long enough for the incubating/brooding parent, at least, to make an escape out the tunnel below.
The bottom line is they do it & they have evolved to do it for a reason & that one is as plausible as any.
I have never seen or heard of Saints eating the carcasses, but definitely decorate the dummy nest with them.
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