Crimson Finch Reserch Aust National University

[gomer]

Researchers at the Australian National University are looking for help from aviculturists who keep Crimson finches (Neochima phaeton) and would be willing to pass on any dead birds they may have, or any that die of natural causes over the coming months. These birds are required as part of a study on the social system of Crimson finches by Dr Sarah Pryke and Catherine Young. In particular the study will focus on aggressive behaviour of wild and captive individuals, for this they are looking for both male and female birds.
If you are able to help please contact Catherine directly: Catherine.youngATanu.edu.au

[Niki_K]

Interesting that they would want dead birds if they're looking into sociality and aggression.

[gomer]

They want to know if the dead bird is aggressor or victim of a aggressor.Sort of like how it was done with gouldians.

[Niki_K]

I'll have to read up on that paper; it sounds really interesting. I guess they would need to know each birds background, which sounds like a pretty complex study, especially if they're looking at live bird interactions.

[Craig52]

I can't understand the reasoning for this,everybody who keeps these birds know the black crowned birds from WA are the most aggressive of the three known sub species and what are they going to find out from a dead bird.
Are they going to use crown/head colours like they did with gouldians,with the latter they could see which birds were dominant by their head colours but with crimsons there are two distinct head colours,black from the West or Grey from the East side of Australia.
With the gouldians,this was all done by live birds,and it was all done with the reasons why they are steadily decreasing in the wild,crimsons are a very different story in the wild,they are very secure.
Why don't they put more time into the blackthoat recovery or the Qld star and if they want to do a crimson,get on to the WB's with only 2,000 left in the wild and declining to find out why and how to save them from extinction. Craig

[casehulsebosch]

Craig,

in a few weeks time you can put these questions to the team in Wyndham. Catherine should be there.

cheers, Case, currently in Virginia, NT

[gomer]

Good questions Croc.If I was guessing I would say that because the field base is in Wyndham Is why they have chosen the crimson.Perhaps the colour of the body of birds can change more out comes that we currently understand.And the crimson is a good test bird for this theory ? I dont believe this study has anything at all to do with securing numbers in the wild. I hope we get the answers in a few weeks aswell, looking forward to it.

[Craig52]

I dont believe this study has anything at all to do with securing numbers in the wild. I hope we get the answers in a few weeks aswell, looking forward to it. [/quote]


Neither do i gomer,but it would be nice to put their time, effort and resources into a disappearing species rather than a prolific specie so yes it will be an interesting week,can't wait also. Craig

[mickw]

I can't understand the reasoning for this,everybody who keeps these birds know the black crowned birds from WA are the most aggressive of the three known sub species and what are they going to find out from a dead bird.
Are they going to use crown/head colours like they did with gouldians,with the latter they could see which birds were dominant by their head colours but with crimsons there are two distinct head colours,black from the West or Grey from the East side of Australia.
With the gouldians,this was all done by live birds,and it was all done with the reasons why they are steadily decreasing in the wild,crimsons are a very different story in the wild,they are very secure.
Why don't they put more time into the blackthoat recovery or the Qld star and if they want to do a crimson,get on to the WB's with only 2,000 left in the wild and declining to find out why and how to save them from extinction. Craig

There are ways and means of getting research done. We're lucky that any has been done on finches at all really...........

At $250/pr Vs $60 a pair, and the super-charged topic of Crimson Finch aggression, I'll hazard my guess.........A Crimson Finch Fund would attract more international attention and support than a Black Throat one........I'm not knocking the STGF approach......it works!.....................I'll leave the sampling design and the researchers hypothesis to the good Doctors, but ultimately, scientific research such as this is performed by Unis on very small budgets and students who are interested in a particular topic, like Stanley at James Cook Uni, doing Black Throats............

There's no massive commercial imperative to channel funds into finch research which will keep us all slim and free of wrinkles, nor is there a panel of emminant aviculturalists providing guidance and oversight as to the most worthy questions in need of answers .......Likewise, dont rely on Government to steer research into the most worthy ecological issues.......Every Threatened Species Recovery Plan is a total cut & paste job..............Help me, I've digressed

[Niki_K]

Excellent point, Mick, about most of this research being done by universities and students on small budgets. The reasons why common species are more often utilised than rarer species are simple- Firstly, it is difficult and expensive to get hold of rarer species. Secondly, it is incredibly difficult to get Animal Ethics approval for any studies involving endangered animals (as a baseline, it took me 5 months to get approval for my relatively non-invasive research with zebbies). Thirdly, even if you can get Ethics approval, people don't want to carry out experiments with endangered species until they are sure the method works. If someone trialled something on an endangered bird and killed half the population, I can guarantee everyone would be coming out of the woodwork to say, 'Oh, why didn't they use zebra finches, or canaries first?'
Ultimately, until someone is willing to do the work (and secure funding for it), it simply cannot be done.