Carbon tax.

[toothlessjaws]

I for one think it's a good thing, or at least better than nothing. Just because nobody else gives a rats, doesn't mean we shouldn't!! Europe have been contributing to the environment through sustainability in many ways that nobody here is aware of, which put us to even further shame.

Also, this tax is going to affect the average household by adding what, 0.7% to the cost of living? Does anybody remember that thing called the GST?!?! This increase is NOTHING, and people seem to have forgotten about the GST altogether, which was a comparatively ENORMOUS increase to the cost of living... Small price to pay I reckon.

right on spanna!

[toothlessjaws]

Would be great to see land rejuvenated back to its origins.Maybe we can help save some of the native flora and fauna,But we cant do anything about a expanding population around the world.

actually we can DO A LOT to tackle the exploding population of the planet and you don't even need to resort to anything as draconian as restrictions on the number of children people have. it is a statistical fact that the wealthier you are, the less children you have. developed countries populations generally either plateau or decline without constant immigration. the planets population growth is centred in developing countries. so to tackle population growth all you need to do is tackle poverty and raise the global standard of living - the global population will then naturally come to balance. the biggest problem however is that the planet cannot sustain all the current worlds population on the standard of living that us in the developed world are so lucky to experience. this is because of the way in which we extract that standard of living. the good news is that virtually all of the technologies required to keep our standard of living in a sustainable way are available to us - its just up to government and industry to embrace it.

so sleep well knowing that the first step to saving the planets population and environmental problems both start with the same solution: get sustainable.

But if they are to have a real go we need base load power nuclear, hydro and geothermal power all of which the greens are against ???

the greens are against these technologies because each comes with large downsides or risks which are unnecessary since far safer sufficient technologies exist. everything i have read in scientific journals disputes that the above mentioned technologies are required to provide power to the planets population. instead if the world embraced tidal, wind and solar alone and put industry behind it - the planet could be running on these renewables alone by around 2040. every single place on the planet has vast amounts of one or more of these three elements to tap into if desired.

I dont mind myself paying extra taxes for funding these,but i need to have a job to pay the taxes.Also every house hold must be worse off for it to have any effect.

considering how well off we are here in australia i think we'll manage just fine.

[Diane]

Is this the youtube video you mean desertbirds?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GShHWrt2aW0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Tiaris]

I don't believe that if we are opposed to the carbon tax as proposed that it means we don't give a rat's about the whole carbon issue. My main concerns are that: It is far more costly to our living costs, employment, economy than any other country's so the effect will be a net extreme negative to Australia's standard of living for NO net benefit to global carbon emissions.
Unless we are included in a more globally accepted scheme which prices carbon evenly for all participants the scheme will have zero global effect and will simply punish those who choose to price carbon higher.
This is not at all a cop out. I really do care for the future. I have young children who I want the very best for after I'm gone, but I don't want to see them punished for the haphazard efforts of a dishonest government trying to hastily put together an appeasement package for green party parliamentary support.
A proper global carbon scheme can certainly have significant environmental benefits for all parties concerned, but what we are about to have thrust upon us is far from that - I can only see harm to Australia's standard of living for no change to Earth's carbon levels.

[E Orix]

I may be off the pace but some of the decisions the greens and others have made to save the planet seem to have been implemented without
really going into the final out come.
Plastic bags,my wife goes out and buys gar bags to use when before she used supermarket bags.Today we again get the bags but my wife still buys the gar bags and the supermarket bags go out as rubbish
Light Globes out with incandecent and in with the new type.Much cheaper to run for sure,not convinced about their longer life BUT how much more pollution is produced in making them.
Pull down a Coal burning power station and build a new low pollution one,great idea but how much more pollution is created by building a new one.Maybe in 5,10 or 20 years the smart people may have discovered a new system.
Many so called pollution savers are made overseas in poorer countries and few don't care one bit about pollution,so their methods increase pollution not decrease it.
The only way I can see out of it is if our Fossil Fuel runs out and we are forced into clean running cars and motor bikes. Our pollution compared to alot of other countries is tiny(still too much)I have been to Bankock many times and never seen the sun just a dirty yellowish glow.The population in that city alone is 13 million and covers an area less than Melbourne.

[GregH]

I live in a third world country and I can see just how far Australia could go down the tubes but to use the excuse that Australia can't afford to lead or experiment ignores the magnitude and urgency of the situation. If humanity doesn't do something about it's obsession with growth - notably population but also unconstrained economies, very soon this planet will be decimated if it's not too late all ready. We don't even think the Australian lifestyle is a party - it's an entitlement(?) NO it's not an entitlement it's a preivelage we have by hosting a low population, with many resources but our developed economy is probably an historic accident of being colonised by the British only just over 200 years ago. The effects of humanity reaches beyond national boarders and E Orix is right what Australia does in absolute terms is peanuts compared to the US or China but to ignore our per capita contribution to carbon emmissions is morrally corrupt in an era where everyone on the planet has to change. You may go buy more plastic bags but here in the Philippines we now have the same rules and plastic bags just aren't at the supermarkets and markets anymore unless you purchase them but for most this is not an economic reality. Even when bags were available teams of people scoured the dumps of Manila scavening them for recycling - thats something you would never see in Australia but now that they aren't around I wonder what happens to those people that made a living out of them but at least the waterways and coastal watters now carry a lesser burden.

As for energy, the renewables are only not economic when you compare them to the totally unsustainable gift of of fossil fuels that the Earth created over meillions of years and we will consume in 500! It's time to get real. Moaning about base load capacity and liquid fuels can be solved if we use this power to create Hydrogen which can be then burned when and where we need it. Yes dams in the tropic release huge amonts of CO2 and flood prime habitat so why not try geothermal and solar. We need to do our best at teh time with what we've got available and in the past that might have been petroleum but we have to wean ourselves off it because even if it doesn't cause global warming (and I'm convinced it does) then it's inescapable that we are runnig out of it fast.

A carbon tax is a prelude to a global carbon Market and is designed to discourage use and encourage those that pay find alternate techologies. If there is a better way then lets hear about it but the bottom line is that the party is over and everyone on Earth has to pay the price even if they didn't personally create the problem.

Finches are a much less divisive issue. Perhaps we should stick to that topic? I'm always up for a debate though.

[Tiaris]

We may well be priveleged to live where & when we do but that's no excuse to trivially fritter away our economic prosperity when the benefits of us doing so are far from a net plus. Everyone on the planet may have to change to remedy the planet's woes but everyone needs to do it together & under the same regime of change for it to have any worthwhile effect.
To do something with the right intentions is not necessarily better than doing nothing if the something accomplishes zilch for the environment and just makes life tougher for those Australians who aren't lucky enough to be making their living in or associated with the current mining industry. Most other sectors are currently doing it very tough and money is tight & getting tighter. Its great to say that this is a bigger issue than us and our current costs of living but the reality is that we are the ones who are being expected to pay for all of this and we weren't asked whether we were prepared to do so beforehand. If you think that the biggest 500 polluters aren't going to pass on every bit of their extra cost burden to you & I as consumers of their goods & services your in for a very rude shock.
The carbon tax may be a prelude to a carbon market, but in Australia only and at carbon prices far in excess of any carbon prices paid under any form of carbon pricing anywhere else in the world. We are indeed legends in our own bathtub.

[desertbirds]

Yes BB that was the vid, cheers. I didnt mean to start a debate either.

[gomer]

Its has been a interesting rational debate thus far desertbirds ,nothing wrong with that.

[toothlessjaws]

We may well be priveleged to live where & when we do but that's no excuse to trivially fritter away our economic prosperity when the benefits of us doing so are far from a net plus. Everyone on the planet may have to change to remedy the planet's woes but everyone needs to do it together & under the same regime of change for it to have any worthwhile effect.
To do something with the right intentions is not necessarily better than doing nothing if the something accomplishes zilch for the environment and just makes life tougher for those Australians who aren't lucky enough to be making their living in or associated with the current mining industry. Most other sectors are currently doing it very tough and money is tight & getting tighter. Its great to say that this is a bigger issue than us and our current costs of living but the reality is that we are the ones who are being expected to pay for all of this and we weren't asked whether we were prepared to do so beforehand. If you think that the biggest 500 polluters aren't going to pass on every bit of their extra cost burden to you & I as consumers of their goods & services your in for a very rude shock.
The carbon tax may be a prelude to a carbon market, but in Australia only and at carbon prices far in excess of any carbon prices paid under any form of carbon pricing anywhere else in the world. We are indeed legends in our own bathtub.

sorry Tiaris but i find this exactly the kind of excuses that perplex me. its the whole "nah in principal i support the idea but i'll come up with absolutely every possible excuse under the sun to oppose it". it costs you a measly 0.7% and THAT'S STILL too big an ask. wow. generous.

Australia doesn't do it tough. not even close. in fact were doing better than everyone else. we can afford it. YOU can afford it. i think Australians crying poor is a complete embarrassment. the fact that you, an australian, argue against this tiny, insignificant little sacrifice to do something about such a potentially DEVASTATING issue genuinely sinks my heart. if we cant even convince a bunch of wealthy spoilt australians to give a penny - what hope have we got of convincing others with less to make even bigger sacrifices?