Sitting crouched - requiring a flat surface

[Ian Hamilton]

Okay this is bit of new one to me. So far I've only seen this with Pictorellas. I had a cock bird die of this maybe 6-8 weeks after first noticing symptoms. Now its happening with a hen. During the process the birds seem to go 'missing'. They become very lazy/listless sitting either in a nest or on a flat surface generally out of way, hidden. From a timing perspective, this started to occur about a month after I removed a nest with infertile eggs although I don't think this is a contributing factor.

As the title indicates, they sit crouched like they have a leg or thigh injury however there is no evidence of any actual injury. There doesn't seen to be movement in their toes, they are quite flat/straight/extended ( not grasping). I cant really tell if they are swollen, perhaps a little but no overly swollen like a mozzie bite, nor do the birds pick at them. The flight appears okay, but perching is the problem. They seem to struggle perching & their movement is an injured hop.

There is no obvious wetness around the vent. Faeces appears normal, no evidence of diarrhea. Their eyes are quite normal. Feathering is not fluffed up and again appears normal. They will come out to feed, but no where near as regular.

I have treated with Moxi, Baycox & included Spark. They are not big drinkers so may not have got a sufficient dose, but I could be treating for something they dont have. Last time I caught the cock & gave directly to the bill & he seemed to go downhill faster, so I've left the hen in the aviary this time.

I've since introduced a new cock & he trying to be friendly & she's no having a barr of him. I think I've described it all, but if you have any hunches, please ask me questions.

Thanks

Ian.

[E Orix]

How old are those effected.

[vettepilot_6]

I would put it in a hospital cage with heat and get faecal sample to bird vet...

[Tiaris]

Pictorellas do typically crouch low on the ground when stressed/alarmed. This is a common posture for healthy Pictorellas when approached. Tail high & the rest of the body horizontal.

[Ian Hamilton]

Thanks for your responses guys.

Around 12-15 mos of age.

Yes, I'm considering a faecal sample to the vet. Too hot to do anything about it today unfortunately, but the heat of the day is helping I think - at least she's on the floor where its a bit cooler looking a little more alert.

I'm aware of posture you refer Tiaris - no its not that one.

I'll endeavor to update this thread if/when an outcome is to known.

Cheers

[Ian Hamilton]

The results are in....thought I'd update to benefit of all. I've learnt a bit too in the process.

I've utilised services of Avian Vet, Dr Rob Marshall at Carlingford (Sydney) - Ph: 02.9871.6036. They explained what I needed to do & made the process very easy to post samples. Rob & his team were very helpful.

As mentioned above, this has only happened in my Pictorellas, all others seemingly having a higher resistance. That's not to say they don't have it too, but now I know how to contain it !

Essentially, they were diagnosed with Staphlococcus & Candida (Thrush).

I was told to immediately stop the soft food, feed dry seed only. I had already caught the birds out, & were not getting any soft-food at any rate, amazing to see her pick even before antibiotic treatment - the hen that is ; the cock died before treatment - the only additive besides dry seed was a little 'Spark' (electrolyte) in the water.

I have embedded this link - hopefully it works... https://www.beautyofbirds.com/candida.html

Treatment
One teaspoon of Moxi-T ( NOT Moxidectin T) and 10 mls of Mycostatin per litre of water for 4 days.

Prevention
KD Powder (Water Cleanser) 2x weekly as part of an ongoing program. Can also be used in heavier measures as a disinfectant. Attached link above suggests ACV may be also a natural preventative.

The cost was more than a pair of Pictorellas cost, but with 3 others dead, & suspect the same cause for 5 dead Lesser Red Brows, the expense as a learning was well worth while for future prevention.

Happy Birding !

[vettepilot_6]

Sad you lost them but a good learning curve for future prevention

[matcho]

Were you given any ideas as to what may have caused this? Sounds like the soft food might have been a contributing factor? Candida is a fungal/yeast thing so it would be interesting to know causes. Thanks for the info for treatment, I have not encountered this (touch wood) but now realise I have probably Jonah'd myself!

Ken.

[BrettB]

Hello Ian,

I would be interested in the basis of the diagnosis
I presume you sent fecal samples through the post, and I doubt culture would be possible on such samples.
Is it based on the microscopy result of the specimens? On a combination of the symptoms and microscopy ? The absence of parasites in a sick bird ?

Not doubting the diagnosis, just trying to get a clearer picture of the process.

Cheers
Brett

[Ian Hamilton]

Hello Ian,

I would be interested in the basis of the diagnosis
I presume you sent fecal samples through the post, and I doubt culture would be possible on such samples.
Is it based on the microscopy result of the specimens? On a combination of the symptoms and microscopy ? The absence of parasites in a sick bird ?

Not doubting the diagnosis, just trying to get a clearer picture of the process.

Cheers
Brett

Hi Brett,

The Vet requested that I take faecal samples, meaning catching the birds out. I placed each in a show cage with a piece of non-absorbent paper on the bottom. This was collected/scraped with a knife ( as an easy toll) to place inside a snap-lock resealable plastic bag. This ensured it remained moist. The male bird died so he was simply put into another bag. The faeces in him remained moist. The samples were posted in an overnight express envelope. This was sent together with a full description of symptoms etc which I more or less copied my my original thread post.

A few days later I called for the results & they gave me some initial results, presumably from microscopy, but were awaiting results from culture samples. At this point I was asked to provide a full breakdown of diet (including dry food, softfood, live food, water etc) and photos of the aviary.
I supplied that in some detail - the detail I thought the greater likelihood of a more accurate result.

A few days after that, I was provided the results over the phone & treatment discussed. yes they sold me product, but that's ok, and provided a regime to clear up the problem. They also provided a lot more literature about suggested on going husbandry. I'll have a read of it & see its something I can integrate into my existing regime.

The process was quite simple & I think you need to be receptive to expert opinion - and willing to work with them as they are ultimately working for me !

Hope this helps

Ian.