Just read the latest JF&S mag & feeling very frustrated at the poor standard of "scientific proof" used to verify & market a softffood supplement to finch breeders.
The graphs all look very impressive on a whole range of measures until you read that the "supplement diet" is green seed+sprouted seed+supplement and the non supplemented diet is just dry seed without either the green seed or sprouted seed. This proves absolutely nothing in relation to the value of the softfood supplement - Just that a combination of green seed, sprouted seed and softfood gives better results on most key measures compared to dry seed alone (eureka! what a breakthrough for modern science). Any objective scientifically authentic experiment to show the value of the softfood would be designed to include a comparison where the only difference in diet was the softfood supplement itself. We all know that half-ripe green seed and sprouted seed are vastly nutritionally superior Gouldian rearing foods compared to dry seed alone & most peoples' experience over many years bears this out.
This stuff may well be good tucker worthy of inclusion in a good Gouldian breeding diet, but I resent being taken for a fool with pseudo-scientific rubbish which insults the intelligence of finch breeders and does absolutely nothing to prove the worthiness of this product in its own right.
Dodgy science
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garymc
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- Posts: 246
- Joined: 17 Feb 2010, 21:26
- Location: Western Australia
Well, not more than an hour ago I ordered some products online, hence your post put a smile on my face. Must say didn't look and the graphs and the like, but a couple of weeks back I finally got around to opening a pack that I purchased at Finches '14. It smelt so good that I bought some.
At Finches '14 (and I'm assuming were are talking to about the same product) I spoke to Firetail555 with regards the product and he mentioned that he had a pair of Linnies which had failed to show any sign of nesting (over a lengthy period of time) and were laying eggs within a couple of weeks of having the supplements added to the diet. Co-incidence or ......
My main reason for trialling it is to see if there are any noticeable changes with regards to the breeding results of some of my older WB crimsons which seem to be very hit or miss fertility wise of late. Same birds fertile one nest clear the next etc etc.
I agree entirely with your comments in regards the results of trials not be a true and fair comparison. Whilst we cant control weather and the seasons, using the same "base" and then adding the supplement is the one thing that could certainly have been controlled to produce a less biased result.
One would also hope that the birds trialled were housed similarly throughout the trial period (eg housing in a cabinet and fed dry seed versus housing in an aviary and fed the the "boosted" diet).
Time will tell I guess
At Finches '14 (and I'm assuming were are talking to about the same product) I spoke to Firetail555 with regards the product and he mentioned that he had a pair of Linnies which had failed to show any sign of nesting (over a lengthy period of time) and were laying eggs within a couple of weeks of having the supplements added to the diet. Co-incidence or ......
My main reason for trialling it is to see if there are any noticeable changes with regards to the breeding results of some of my older WB crimsons which seem to be very hit or miss fertility wise of late. Same birds fertile one nest clear the next etc etc.
I agree entirely with your comments in regards the results of trials not be a true and fair comparison. Whilst we cant control weather and the seasons, using the same "base" and then adding the supplement is the one thing that could certainly have been controlled to produce a less biased result.
One would also hope that the birds trialled were housed similarly throughout the trial period (eg housing in a cabinet and fed dry seed versus housing in an aviary and fed the the "boosted" diet).
Time will tell I guess
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Tiaris
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- Location: Coffs Harbour
I look forward to hearing how it goes Gary & I'm not at all saying its not worth trying or that it is in any way inferior to other finch softfood products available, but that the claims that the results of the quoted "scientific experiments by ANU scientists" prove anything at all about the product in its own right let alone compared to other brands of softfood powders available. I hope your WB crimsons rear healthy clutches of at least 6 next round.
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garymc
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- Posts: 246
- Joined: 17 Feb 2010, 21:26
- Location: Western Australia
Me too (hope there is 6 in the next round). But you are spot on in you comments that its not a fair comparison - perhaps its just the soaked seed that makes the difference, but how would we know?
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Craig52
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- Location: victoria
Sarah has been absent from Australia for a couple of years now so i don't think it's her work. I am probably speaking out of term as i don't receive JF&S anymore due to the price of it but there are others using the facility's to make money for "Save the Gouldian Fund"SamDavis wrote:I have great respect for Dr Sarah Pryke's work and find it difficult to comprehend that the article in question is actually her work.
Something is not quite right here.
I do believe and imo that the STGF has just about been abandoned since Sarah's departure,the gouldian count stopped and the original facility closed as well as the new one. Sorry, bit off topic but the money has to come from somewhere at others expense.