Need help sexing my Red-Browed finches

[hanabi]

Three months ago I purchased three "pair" of red-browed finches. These were all young juveniles, and when I obtained them I thought I indeed had three hen/cock pairs. I placed them all in the same cage hoping that I would see some natural pair-bonding or at least hear cock courtship calls to confirm the cocks. Well time has passed, and to date I have neither observed any pair bonding nor any courtship calls, so I am beginning to wonder whether I actually have three cocks and three hens or something else. This post is thus a call for help from the far-more-experienced-than-me members of the forum.

I'm going to call the 6 specimens by their leg band colours: brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue; yes, if there are any electrical engineers among you I use the engineers colour code when banding my finches. Here are the six specimens:

(1) Brown ring



(2) Red ring (the middle bird)



(3) Orange ring



(4) Yellow ring



(5) Green ring (bird on the viewer's right)




(6) Blue ring (bird on the viewer's left)




I'm reasonably sure that Brown and Orange are cocks, given the long brow and obvious shoulder stripe. Red originally looked to be a hen due to the very short brow but now looks to be a cock. I am not sure of the sex of the other three, although if I had to guess I would say Yellow is a hen, Green is maybe a hen, and Blue is maybe a cock. You can see multiple images of each specimen using the links below, but be warned that the first several images were taken three months ago, so the bottom-most images are most recent.

(1) Brown (no recent images)
http://www.ohmifinch.com/DB/ItemDetail.asp?item=46252

(2) Red (recent images at the bottom of the webpage)
http://www.ohmifinch.com/DB/ItemDetail.asp?item=46254

(3) Orange (no recent images)
http://www.ohmifinch.com/DB/ItemDetail.asp?item=46255

(4) Yellow (recent images at the bottom of the webpage)
http://www.ohmifinch.com/DB/ItemDetail.asp?item=46256

(5) Green (recent images at the bottom of the webpage)
http://www.ohmifinch.com/DB/ItemDetail.asp?item=46253

(6) Blue (recent images at the bottom of the webpage)
http://www.ohmifinch.com/DB/ItemDetail.asp?item=46257

As a matter of interest these birds were imported from Europe and I had to pay over $700 Aussie dollars for each pair, so I am rather envious of you guys back home paying considerable less. On the other hand imports are not prohibited here (Japan) so I perhaps have access to some species that you don't have in Australia.

As always, thanks in advance for any help you may give.

Ross

[arthur]

None of them 'jump out' at me as Cockbirds

I am spoiled, as cocks in the wild ones in my back yard can be sexed by their brilliant red bills

[Craig52]

Just going by the fronts of those birds imo they are all cocks or maybe just one hen,orange ring. They are all in poor feather condition but the best way to sex is by the colour of the front breast in adult birds. The cocks are a silver blue and the hens are grey brown in colour.
I think you need to let them moult out a bit more and let them get a bit more condition on them.
I would freek out paying $700 AU for them unseen,we pay $50 a pr but you are right you would have species that we would pay more than $700 for. Cheers Craig

[arthur]

Agree with Craig on breast colour . . not unlike sexing Auroras

And agree that there is a big chance that they are all the same sex

But even so I would be hard pressed to pick a rooster among them

[iaos]

At $700AUD I'd be getting them DNA sexed.

[gomer]

I think 5 green looks like a hen going by the brow only pointed where as the others are more thick and square. It is hard to tell I agree due to the poor feather condition. Can you get them feather dna its quite cheap to do here $9 a bird.

Hard to tell blue, yellow, orange to me maybe cocks.

If they were mine and in good feather i would either get them dna. or put them in a multi compartment box to look at them all at once and take them out one at a time looking at whats been stated plus rump intensity and crown size.

[casehulsebosch]

I note quite a few of this species offered for sale in Europe for EU 30-35 ea.

maybe these flew first class to their new owner?

cheers, Case.

[hanabi]

Thank you all for the replies.

maybe these flew first class to their new owner?

Yes Case, I think they must have taken separate seats too

Ok well it would appear it's harder to sex this species (or at least my examples) than I thought. I thought there were obvious shoulder stripes on some of them but because stripes were not mentioned in any of the replies I assume they need to be even more obvious?

Craig, the one occasion I saw these all lined up on a perch I did notice that one had a browner breast and belly, and that was Green ring. Perhaps the gender differences will become more obvious as they get older; I'm guessing they are around 6 to 8 months of age now.

would freak out paying $700 AU for them unseen,

Yeah, unfortunately we have to take what we're given. Apparently the importers here have minimal leverage over the quality and sex of the birds we receive. It's not uncommon for the exporters to send us 20 males and zero females, and of course we always get "the fish that John West rejects" (hope you're all old enough to remember that commercial ) In the end I guess we are happy to have access to these species and are willing enough to pay the exorbitant prices. To amuse you, imported Painteds are $750 a pair, Pictorellas are $1,200/pair (wanted a few pair but not at that price), Diamonds are $300, Plumbeads $250, Masks $450, Double-bars $250, Chestnut Breasted $400, Stars $300, the other three species of Grass-tails are around $300, Gouldians $250, etc. Not for the faint-hearted

Can you get them feather dna its quite cheap to do here $9 a bird.

Thanks for the suggestion Iaos and Gomer, looks like that is what I need to do. The guys here get it done in Canada mostly, but I'd rather get it done back home. Gomer would you be so kind as to tell me where they do feather testing for $9? Would appreciate knowing of other Aussie companies that do DNA testing too if anyone has recommendations.

I note quite a few of this species offered for sale in Europe for EU 30-35 ea.

Case, can you provide me with some web links to European sellers and finch forums? I am very interested in knowing what finches are available in Europe and their pricing. The importers here know very little about the availability of the rarer Aussie species, probably because there is very little interest in them.

Cheers.

[gomer]

Its Curtain University in W.A By DR D Groth

I have emailed you the details.

[arthur]

Wouldn't be certain, but I think that there may be problems in 'importing' feathers, blood etc

Anyway Groth would be up to speed on that side of things