NSW Class 2 Bird Licence

[VR1Ton]

Yes, if you can prove to them that you have been keeping birds for more than 2 -3 years. Your Finch club or your Vet might be able to help! All you need is a letter from either of them saying that you have been keeping birds for that period of time and that they think you have the necessary experience for keeping the class 2 birds.

If you've been keeping registered birds for 2 or more years, all you have to do is submit an application.

[Myzomela]

I know a former SA bird dealer who sent marsupials and softbills to NSW years ago and rang the head of enforcement/compliance in NSW National Parks & told him he was importing restricted native species into NSW including species, numbers and flight details. He challenged the officer to stop him & he would then "bring the system down" by taking legal action on the basis of s52 of the Australian Constitution ("there shall be no interstate trade barriers") & hence the state laws/restrictions are unconstitutional. The parkies didn't even try to stop the shipments involved. This is a powerful tool for anyone to pursue for any such commercial transaction involving state-based restrictions involving species with legally held status interstate. Using this course for expanding species lists may be problematic if the state(s) involved could plausibly use the environmental protection argument, but I see it as a very clear-cut case for demolishing the import/export permit fees of some states. It would require a ballsy commercial operator to stand up for their constitutional rights.

Danny Brown used exactly that argument when he made his submission, quoting S92 but all to no avail...and he's not the sort of person who will back down from a fight.

Perhaps he can expand further on his experiences...

Sorry to hijack the topic again, but as Tiaris and Arthur have hinted these interstate differences are ludicrous.

[VinceS]

Just as a curiosity point, it was really clear at the Gunnedah bird sale that these people knew an awful lot about the crap bureaucratic goings on of the kind discussed here:

http://www.birdkeepers.com.au/aba-inc-introduction" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can't say I have looked into it much because whatever is going on there is some distance down the track before I would have the inclination to get involved, but I do know how to get outcomes in bureaucracies. It is plain bloody hard work if done in a way that works, rather than the more usual tanty style that people tend to select as the method of first choice, mostly I think because it feels good!

[VinceS]

Say, and to add to the above possibly useful info, here's a yarn that definitely isn't useful. But it was my experience of getting a license. I started with the dumb-f idea that I should "be prepared", guess that's what scouting does to you all those years ago. Anyway if you have trolled through my ridiculously long introductory mutterings you will see that I had a plan (viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11435&start=20#p103928" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). In November I decided an aviary was going to be built in time for the 30/03/12 Gunnedah show so one of the things I would do is apply for a licence which of course i didn't need until 29/03/12. Simple huh?

I emailed NPWS and the licensing mgr Allan McLean (who I soon came to respect for his sensible no nonsense way of dealing with things) said it was no problemo, just make it clear on the form what you want and we will issue you a 5 year license valid from end March. So I did that, got confirmation the form is in and went about putting the aviary together.

Fast forward to mid March and still no licence. Because I had already decided Allan was a decent bloke and could handle it I sent him the below email. His response was immediate "mate, I'll sort it" and he did, next day there it was. But I am just putting the story in here, somewhat off topic, but it serves to illustrate that "behind the scenes" idiocy so rampant in bureaucratic institutions that we are only saved from by having a decent person in the right place, plus you get an idea for your amusement what a Vince "dummy spit" looks like:

I am guessing the “back room girls” are not exactly aware of what the NPWS is all about. They seem to have caught some super-bitch view of the world and forgotten why they are working at NPWS, or what they are meant to be achieving. Or at least one of them has. I am wondering if you could please kindly intervene and get this licence issued pronto. The finch habitat aviary is coming along marvellously, hope to “wire” it up this weekend, weather permitting. I have been to KL in the meantime and seen how good these kinds of aviaries can be, which has given me ideas to incorporate a triple level pond complete with beach and bird Jacuzzi area. But I will need that licence to fill it up when I get to the Gunnedah bird sale later this month.

Why has this simple licence issue gone off the rails? The story:

A few days after submitting the application per below I received a phone call from a lady who’s name I now don’t remember. She was extremely annoyed that I would have the hide to ask for a licence to be issued before it was needed. I explained the reasons and that I had asked and that it was OK. She said that it was a long time for the application to sit in the bottom drawer and might be forgotten. I said I was expecting this licence to turn up with a “valid from 29/03/12” statement on it, seemed easy and could she please just do it as agreed? She said she would “look into it”.

She wanted to know who had said they would do this so I told her, I expected she would confirm with you then simply issue it. Well it hasn’t turned up here yet so it seems the super-bitch thing stubborn / obstinate bureaucratic petty minded power play thing has kicked in. Well I can only say that I am asking for a 5 year licence and, if they can’t handle post dating it, how about they “get over it” and issue it with a couple of months for free? I mean who are they kidding that this is other than a mechanism to administer some form of NPWS oversight as to what birds are being kept where – administrative timing is VERY unimportant compared to the overall agenda here, and this is a low cost activity so it is very unimportant exactly when it starts. And anyway as I said it is not as if I can use the thing, just like to get admin stuff done when think about it. Of course I could be an outrageous liar and trying to sneak about $5 worth of licence for free, get real!

I can of course provide my reservation details to attend the Gunnedah bird sale, and show photos of where I won’t be keeping birds until April. I was thinking about this non-issue of licence while I was clearing the area that I am to construct the show aviary on, and it was irritating to think we have people like this in the world – not a biggie but annoying nevertheless, especially when you are moving rocks on a hot day! This aviary is a real attempt to provide the birds kept with as natural environment as I can manage, people like me should be encouraged rather than treated as power play victim fodder for the entertainment of small minded people.

Please do what you can to ensure the person involved with licence issuing “gets it” – and then moderates their views / actions to be solidly anchored to the core reasons for being that her employer has. I am fine with this email being copied around NPWS, but please it is not an invitation to listen to excuses from the relevant person. There was a duty to perform, it didn’t happen and still needs to. Doing it is all I ask, from my somewhat annoyed frame of mind at the moment (no offence intended, just dealing in facts here….). I appreciate your assistance and I hope you are smiling now....

Mind you I do so hope this isn’t an Australia Post issue, I will feel soooo embarrassed if it is……

[maz]

That is a wonderful Email Vince, the more of your posts i read the more I am thinking we will get on well

[finchbreeder]

WA has made a recent change where your licence can no longer be in joint names, like it has been for the last 20 years. So filled it in as usual, and just put my date of birth, not previously required. And an asterisk by my name as opposed to hubbys. Licence came back in his name only. Hmm. Rang the Dept and explained, I am the bird keeper, he is the avairy construction and repairs dept. OK says the guy on the line I am changing it on the computor now. Still haven't received a change on paper so I guess I will have to present old and new licences when buying and selling.
LML

[Tiaris]

Say, and to add to the above possibly useful info, here's a yarn that definitely isn't useful. But it was my experience of getting a license. I started with the dumb-f idea that I should "be prepared", guess that's what scouting does to you all those years ago. Anyway if you have trolled through my ridiculously long introductory mutterings you will see that I had a plan (viewtopic.php?f=35&t=11435&start=20#p103928" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). In November I decided an aviary was going to be built in time for the 30/03/12 Gunnedah show so one of the things I would do is apply for a licence which of course i didn't need until 29/03/12. Simple huh?

I emailed NPWS and the licensing mgr Allan McLean (who I soon came to respect for his sensible no nonsense way of dealing with things) said it was no problemo, just make it clear on the form what you want and we will issue you a 5 year license valid from end March. So I did that, got confirmation the form is in and went about putting the aviary together.

Fast forward to mid March and still no licence. Because I had already decided Allan was a decent bloke and could handle it I sent him the below email. His response was immediate "mate, I'll sort it" and he did, next day there it was. But I am just putting the story in here, somewhat off topic, but it serves to illustrate that "behind the scenes" idiocy so rampant in bureaucratic institutions that we are only saved from by having a decent person in the right place, plus you get an idea for your amusement what a Vince "dummy spit" looks like:

I am guessing the “back room girls” are not exactly aware of what the NPWS is all about. They seem to have caught some super-bitch view of the world and forgotten why they are working at NPWS, or what they are meant to be achieving. Or at least one of them has. I am wondering if you could please kindly intervene and get this licence issued pronto. The finch habitat aviary is coming along marvellously, hope to “wire” it up this weekend, weather permitting. I have been to KL in the meantime and seen how good these kinds of aviaries can be, which has given me ideas to incorporate a triple level pond complete with beach and bird Jacuzzi area. But I will need that licence to fill it up when I get to the Gunnedah bird sale later this month.

Why has this simple licence issue gone off the rails? The story:

A few days after submitting the application per below I received a phone call from a lady who’s name I now don’t remember. She was extremely annoyed that I would have the hide to ask for a licence to be issued before it was needed. I explained the reasons and that I had asked and that it was OK. She said that it was a long time for the application to sit in the bottom drawer and might be forgotten. I said I was expecting this licence to turn up with a “valid from 29/03/12” statement on it, seemed easy and could she please just do it as agreed? She said she would “look into it”.

She wanted to know who had said they would do this so I told her, I expected she would confirm with you then simply issue it. Well it hasn’t turned up here yet so it seems the super-bitch thing stubborn / obstinate bureaucratic petty minded power play thing has kicked in. Well I can only say that I am asking for a 5 year licence and, if they can’t handle post dating it, how about they “get over it” and issue it with a couple of months for free? I mean who are they kidding that this is other than a mechanism to administer some form of NPWS oversight as to what birds are being kept where – administrative timing is VERY unimportant compared to the overall agenda here, and this is a low cost activity so it is very unimportant exactly when it starts. And anyway as I said it is not as if I can use the thing, just like to get admin stuff done when think about it. Of course I could be an outrageous liar and trying to sneak about $5 worth of licence for free, get real!

I can of course provide my reservation details to attend the Gunnedah bird sale, and show photos of where I won’t be keeping birds until April. I was thinking about this non-issue of licence while I was clearing the area that I am to construct the show aviary on, and it was irritating to think we have people like this in the world – not a biggie but annoying nevertheless, especially when you are moving rocks on a hot day! This aviary is a real attempt to provide the birds kept with as natural environment as I can manage, people like me should be encouraged rather than treated as power play victim fodder for the entertainment of small minded people.

Please do what you can to ensure the person involved with licence issuing “gets it” – and then moderates their views / actions to be solidly anchored to the core reasons for being that her employer has. I am fine with this email being copied around NPWS, but please it is not an invitation to listen to excuses from the relevant person. There was a duty to perform, it didn’t happen and still needs to. Doing it is all I ask, from my somewhat annoyed frame of mind at the moment (no offence intended, just dealing in facts here….). I appreciate your assistance and I hope you are smiling now....

Mind you I do so hope this isn’t an Australia Post issue, I will feel soooo embarrassed if it is……

That's an awful lot of words where "please hurry" would do.

[west finch]

Tiaris

[VinceS]

That is a wonderful Email Vince, the more of your posts i read the more I am thinking we will get on well

Thanks Maz, glad to see that someone else appreciates a bit of subtlety in making "the point".

That's an awful lot of words where "please hurry" would do.

Awr yeah, but where's the fun in that?????? I knew there would be no stopping the licence getting issued when I asked about it, but this way there has been a bit of payback for the unhelpful individual that caused the problem in the first place - and it may just make the world a better place. No harm in that, if you can be bothered. And I can be, so there you have it!

[VinceS]

and I would add, there's no use in making the point too subtly when a bulldozer is the correct implement to tap the offender on the shoulder with, I just hope it worked but I guess it is only those that come after me that will know.

It still took another polite reminder with a feedback email three weeks after the electronic one to get the hard copy licence to turn up a week after I pestered.
Say, just for the fun of it, here's that email too. It drew an entirely delightful "Thanks for the feedback. I’ll look into your suggestions." from the man that runs the show. Here 'tis:

As a new licence holder one tends to notice things by looking at them for the first time. I draw your attention to the below for action (or not!) as you see fit:

1) On the FAQ page (last sheet of this: http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resou ... esList.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) the following entries have errors:
Canary and Cage Bird Federation of Australia Inc. PO Box 230 Frenches Forest NSW 2086
Correct website is:
http://www.petdirectory.com.au/?page=profile&pid=1574" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (current)
http://www.birdclubs.org.au" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (future)

Parrot Society of Australia (NSW) Inc PO Box 783 Seven Hills NSW 2147
Correct website is:
http://www.parrotsocietynsw.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Others I would suggest appear to be of merit for inclusion are:
http://www.finchsociety.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.hvas.asn.au" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Whilst not a true society, I would suggest the following is also worthy of inclusion because it does provide good club references as well as sources, after all the more the merrier!:
http://www.birdsale.com.au/calendar.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2) The posted copy of the licence is yet to turn up as promised below, no problem as a printed copy was just fine at the Gunnedah bird sale.
3) My licence has no Class on it, I am assuming it is B1? Which is all I need.
4) The electronic record keeping system seems to have what must be teething problems. Specifically I just went to enter the birds I purchased on 31/03/12 sale date and it refused to accept a date prior to 1/04/12, so cé la vie, that is the date it got! It states submissions for the year ended March 2011 have closed, fair enough – but 2012 should still be open to finalise records until the lodgement date passes, ie 1 month.
5) On the My Species and Records page there is reference to “prior to lodging your records in March 2012”, obviously it means “April 2012”.

I trust this feedback is helpful. I have 33 birds now, only 4 requiring a licence – I didn’t realise how many nice to keep finches were actually exotics / delicenced. They seem ecstatic with the habitat I have provided for them!