just to "fess up" to exactly what happened this is a mask leaving said cage for the second time - they were amongst the first to leave but then at least one of them came back. The plumheads and orange breasts were in a tie for last place, about 20 minutes after I opened the door the plumheads finally left - I was saying to the missus they will be known as "those oh so stupid plumheads". But the reality is they have adapted brilliantly after their slow start.
Now I do have a cage about three times the size of this but decided to give them the wormer and leave them in this cage in the sunshine (with shade) for the arvo, covered them up indoors overnight and let them go the next day. Put the cage in the main aviary early and was intending to release around midday but couldn't see the point of depriving them the opportunity to have a good hunt around themselves so let them go around 10am. If I have stuffed up importantly here let the tut-tutting begin. But I am thinking I am being good to my birds and the rest seem to agree, or I got bloody lucky depending how it goes!
Stressed Birds and what to do/not do to avoid "sudden death"
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VinceS
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- Location: Newcastle
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Some days are Diamonds some days are Zebs. Sometimes the coccidiosis won't leave me alone. Sometimes a cold wind blows a chill in my Gouldians. But any day with my finches is a day without stones.
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Brooksy
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- Location: Ocean Grove VIC
As soon as i saw the opening post i thought this is going to be painful and it was! Vince your writing is so hard to follow, too much skipping about. You have to employ the KISS method more often buddy.
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VinceS
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- Location: Newcastle
i guess I don't write for all readers!
PS: But I know what you're saying
PS: But I know what you're saying
Some days are Diamonds some days are Zebs. Sometimes the coccidiosis won't leave me alone. Sometimes a cold wind blows a chill in my Gouldians. But any day with my finches is a day without stones.
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Weaver
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- Posts: 153
- Joined: 13 Apr 2010, 10:30
- Location: Sydney
Vince, sorry to keep going on about the cage, however a couple of other issues with it.
Throw the plastic perches away - many birds simply will not roost on them.
Secondly It appears that there were two gravity water hoppers but neither would have reached the ground. Birds not familiar with them will go thirsty (dehydrate)
Always have an open dish at ground level until you have seen the birds using the drinkers.
I am sorry to be sound negative and hope you take my comments constructively.
Throw the plastic perches away - many birds simply will not roost on them.
Secondly It appears that there were two gravity water hoppers but neither would have reached the ground. Birds not familiar with them will go thirsty (dehydrate)
Always have an open dish at ground level until you have seen the birds using the drinkers.
I am sorry to be sound negative and hope you take my comments constructively.
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VinceS
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always a fan of constructive comments as it is the intention that matters most, the content is a bonus. In this case I will note that the right side drinker does reach the ground, that hole in the pink bit under the label is where it went in, about 1 cm above the bottom (and note the plastic base holds the cage off the ground). I did that because a) it is impossible to do car transport with a bowl, b) quail need it, and c) I don't want them bathing in wormer.
Re the plastic perches I have never observed any reluctance to perch, and they seem to like the variable shapes - so I don't know where the idea they were refused might have come from but not my experience. The other reason I especially went out of my way to get these is they can be removed / inserted at will from outside the cages (being a turn 90 deg to lock system). That means it is easier to catch birds if need to. So Hurrumph, I beg to differ, in a good spirited well intended kinda way!
Re the plastic perches I have never observed any reluctance to perch, and they seem to like the variable shapes - so I don't know where the idea they were refused might have come from but not my experience. The other reason I especially went out of my way to get these is they can be removed / inserted at will from outside the cages (being a turn 90 deg to lock system). That means it is easier to catch birds if need to. So Hurrumph, I beg to differ, in a good spirited well intended kinda way!
Some days are Diamonds some days are Zebs. Sometimes the coccidiosis won't leave me alone. Sometimes a cold wind blows a chill in my Gouldians. But any day with my finches is a day without stones.
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west finch
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- Location: tamworth
I had some clown approach me at Gunnedah with a cage like yours with two green checked conures in it and wanted to purchase a pair of Gouldian’s . When I asked where he wanted to put them he gestured in the cage with the conures . I then went on to explain why I would not and he got quite upset . So i just said no and bugger off ( common sense is not so common ) later on I had other people approach me with similar cages and I refused to sell them my birds . I work to hard breeding them to sell them some one who has no idea of how to look after them from the start .(just imagine the cage they go into when and if they make it home .!!!!!)Do your HOME WORK before you go buy the birds .Some of the comments so fare are from some of the best breeders in the country so i would take notice of what they have to say .
Work smarter not harder !
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Tiaris
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Already touched on to some extent but settling in new birds for best health isn't always about medication. In fact its not even mostly about medication. Consider first the commonsense basics - warmth, dryness and lack of competition. Maskeds are a very terrestrial species and absolutely require a dry floored aviary for good health. The photos of the birds in the aviary appear to me to be settled on wet rocks. If this is typical of the floor medium of their aviary in the cold of the past couple of weeks it wouldn't matter which medications they were given. Life threatening illness would be just a matter of time for Masked finches under such conditions. Some species (very few finches) may be more adaptable to a cold & moist environment, but definitely not Maskeds.
To minimise stress starts from the acquisition. Proper carry box with as few birds in each compartment as possible, clean seed scattered over the floor, open water cup/lid with cottonwool within to avoid spillage or wet birds whilst transporting. Put birds into a cabinet for a couple of days on return home & given electrolyte water in uncrowded, quiet & protected conditions. Don't release into aviary until all are 100% healthy looking. If you must medicate them to get them to that stage let them settle in first before adding any chemical stress.
To minimise stress starts from the acquisition. Proper carry box with as few birds in each compartment as possible, clean seed scattered over the floor, open water cup/lid with cottonwool within to avoid spillage or wet birds whilst transporting. Put birds into a cabinet for a couple of days on return home & given electrolyte water in uncrowded, quiet & protected conditions. Don't release into aviary until all are 100% healthy looking. If you must medicate them to get them to that stage let them settle in first before adding any chemical stress.
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VinceS
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- Location: Newcastle
hmm, well I don't know about the clown, and you sure do get 'em in every walk of life, but using this style of cage was for convenience. At the time I acquired it and a couple similar, plus bought some open mesh carry cages I had no effing idea about the carry boxes people use now, and I doubt any homework I didn't do would have told me any different. But it is not like they were going to any kind of purgatory, check http://www.aussiefinchforum.net/viewtop ... 20#p103969 for details. Last time I bought birds they were given to you in a perforated shoe box and you chucked seed in it and needed to.
So I am just saying ignorance in what you bring to a sale does not tell it all, what you say and do is a far better indicator. At Gunnedah I was asking as I didn't know. I had put cardboard round three sides but even that wasn't good enough as the birds were a little flighty so (at Gunnedah) I had the missus cage sit and I took one at a time and filled it up, typically 8 birds. And covered them with a towel.
The point of this whole topic, apart from me discovering my errors, is to say it really would be worthwhile to gather the short form of this info and sticky it, so those that don't know can actually find out. Let me also say that, pre-Gunnedah, I found the species summaries here very helpful to compile the list of what to purchase but I didn't twig that, buried in all the extensive info, was some "need to know" stuff. Instead I settled on having a good chat to the Veta fellow as I figured I was going to get all the bases covered there. Well I didn't it is obvious to me now. But should it stay like that or do we want to do something better?
So I am just saying ignorance in what you bring to a sale does not tell it all, what you say and do is a far better indicator. At Gunnedah I was asking as I didn't know. I had put cardboard round three sides but even that wasn't good enough as the birds were a little flighty so (at Gunnedah) I had the missus cage sit and I took one at a time and filled it up, typically 8 birds. And covered them with a towel.
The point of this whole topic, apart from me discovering my errors, is to say it really would be worthwhile to gather the short form of this info and sticky it, so those that don't know can actually find out. Let me also say that, pre-Gunnedah, I found the species summaries here very helpful to compile the list of what to purchase but I didn't twig that, buried in all the extensive info, was some "need to know" stuff. Instead I settled on having a good chat to the Veta fellow as I figured I was going to get all the bases covered there. Well I didn't it is obvious to me now. But should it stay like that or do we want to do something better?
Some days are Diamonds some days are Zebs. Sometimes the coccidiosis won't leave me alone. Sometimes a cold wind blows a chill in my Gouldians. But any day with my finches is a day without stones.
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Canary
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- Posts: 474
- Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 20:04
- Location: Sydney West, NSW
Vince
Sorry to hear about the birds. In the first 3 photos they do look a bit off.
From my experience, stress is one of the biggest problems with birds health. I have had the problem in the past with stressed birds. A change in surroundings, or a change in the mix of other birds are all stressful situations. Sometimes I can take 1 bird out of a cage of 2 that are always fighting and put it in with another 2 and they all get on happily.
When I bring in new birds I leave them in separate cages for 1 week to observe them before mixing with my birds. The only medication that I give them is 1 drop of Ivermectin with a crop needle to the beak (make sure they drink it and don’t shake it out), which has already been diluted to the correct strength by the club. This kills any lice, mites and worms. I believe it also kills air sac mites. I give it to them immediately and 1 week later, the day before I put them in with other birds.
We were discussing giving birds antibiotics at a club meeting last week. Some members give their birds antibiotics each year before the breeding season and then give them probiotics afterwards. Other members, including myself, only give antibiotics if a bird is sick. I use the example of my doctor. He doesn’t give me antibiotics every year just to clean my system, and I even have trouble getting them off him when I am sick, so I use the same logic with my birds. I give all my birds Ivermectin before the breeding season to kill mites and worms.
When the club members compared their breeding results with members who do not use antibiotics annually, the results were almost identical. I honestly don’t believe that antibiotics are any benefit to a healthy bird, so observation is the first step.
I know you said that the other birds that you bought in the same situation, however, all birds handle it differently. Again, the club president was saying that after last weeks show, out of 18 birds he had 1 that was ill afterwards, most likely stress. The other 17 in the same situation were fine.
Sorry to hear about the birds. In the first 3 photos they do look a bit off.
From my experience, stress is one of the biggest problems with birds health. I have had the problem in the past with stressed birds. A change in surroundings, or a change in the mix of other birds are all stressful situations. Sometimes I can take 1 bird out of a cage of 2 that are always fighting and put it in with another 2 and they all get on happily.
When I bring in new birds I leave them in separate cages for 1 week to observe them before mixing with my birds. The only medication that I give them is 1 drop of Ivermectin with a crop needle to the beak (make sure they drink it and don’t shake it out), which has already been diluted to the correct strength by the club. This kills any lice, mites and worms. I believe it also kills air sac mites. I give it to them immediately and 1 week later, the day before I put them in with other birds.
We were discussing giving birds antibiotics at a club meeting last week. Some members give their birds antibiotics each year before the breeding season and then give them probiotics afterwards. Other members, including myself, only give antibiotics if a bird is sick. I use the example of my doctor. He doesn’t give me antibiotics every year just to clean my system, and I even have trouble getting them off him when I am sick, so I use the same logic with my birds. I give all my birds Ivermectin before the breeding season to kill mites and worms.
When the club members compared their breeding results with members who do not use antibiotics annually, the results were almost identical. I honestly don’t believe that antibiotics are any benefit to a healthy bird, so observation is the first step.
I know you said that the other birds that you bought in the same situation, however, all birds handle it differently. Again, the club president was saying that after last weeks show, out of 18 birds he had 1 that was ill afterwards, most likely stress. The other 17 in the same situation were fine.
Last edited by Canary on 09 Jun 2012, 20:21, edited 2 times in total.
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VinceS
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- Posts: 70
- Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 21:54
- Location: Newcastle
Good advice and thanks tiaris, I do get this better now.
re this bit:
re this bit:
they are urethane coated rocks, dry as tinder but with "the wet look"!Tiaris wrote:The photos of the birds in the aviary appear to me to be settled on wet rocks.
Some days are Diamonds some days are Zebs. Sometimes the coccidiosis won't leave me alone. Sometimes a cold wind blows a chill in my Gouldians. But any day with my finches is a day without stones.