gouldian genetics

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meepmeeps
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after many months of interesting reading im still none the wiser. in the wild there are 3 types of gouldian that occour naturally... Black head, Red head, Orange head. my question is how the hell do they get pastels, blues, and many other types from these normal 3 types of bird ??? ive used several genetic calculators and they dont explain anything lol
i have all 3 types of normal gouldians and would like to know how its done, i mean how does anyone produce a pastel or blue from normal gouldians? ive read some must carry a blue gene etc but if they are normals then how do they get this blue gene to start with? none of this makes any sense to me at all. can anyone shed some light on this subject for me please as im lost :D
thanks
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Tiaris
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Blue is an autosomal recessive colour mutation which has been established in captivity.
It isn't possible to breed a blue Gouldian from pure normal Gouldians. A pair of normal looking Gouldians can do so only if they both carry the Blue gene. ie. they must have a blue Gouldian as a parent or ancestor to pass the recessive gene onto them. Such birds are said to be split to the blue mutation.
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meepmeeps
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thats my point... if in the wild there is only 3 types of gouldian how does the blue come about? i mean even if bread in captivity the blue would have to come from somewhere but if there were only 3 types of gouldian to start with i cant see how a blue gouldian is created. to me it is simple math but clearly im missing something unless the blue gene comes from a differnt type of bird then it wouldnt be a gouldian just a hybrid?
im thinking in terms of right at the beginning when there was only 3 types of gouldian to start with and no mutations exist yet, where does a breeder start in this case?
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TomDeGraaff
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Hi.
In the dna of these birds are sections called genes. Dna is replicated during normal cell replication and growth of the bird and also it is replicated when the bird is making sex cells such as eggs and sperm.
It is during this process that mistakes can occur and genes (sections of the dna) are made faulty. These faulty genes then cause a new thing to happen in the bird. It may be something that we cannot see or it may be, as in colour mutations, something we can see.
So, these mutations as they are called continally pop up in a population but are usually not seen because a bird would only have one copy and it needs 2 for it to be expressed.
When two birds that each have a copy of this same mutation gene mate, they can produce these new coloured birds. People then breed for these colurs and that's where they come from.

I hope tha helps :)
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Tiaris
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Pretty much the same as how blue eyes came about from brown in humans, etc, etc. A genetic mutation of which we see thousands of examples every day in most living things. Exactly what circumstances caused the back colour of the the first blue mutant Gouldian to change that way - your guess is as good as mine.
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Craig52
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I think what meepmeep is saying is how did the colours turn up in the first place. I'll give it ago,in the wild very few mutations are born,those that are,are heavily predated on because of their out standing colour difference to the normal bird eg a green bird is hard to see,a yellow bird stands out like dogs b...
A genetic change/mistake has changed the appearance of this bird for the worst.
In an aviary situation,these mutations turn up and have a much more chance of survival,no predation and are picked out to concentrate on breeding that colour for that colour. Does that make sense? The differant body colours are all genetic natural mistakes and happens in nearly all animals. Craig
Last edited by Craig52 on 27 Jan 2013, 21:55, edited 1 time in total.
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meepmeeps
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thank you both for the help and thank you Uraeginthus for explaining it to me in plain english, i now understand :) someone told me i had to inbreed to get mutations etc and im really against inbreeding, reminds me of the kids next door lol. today i learnt something new and thanks its much appreciated
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Craig52
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That somebody is partly right,inbreeding will/can change genetic make up,so if two related birds with the same hidden gene breed together a mutation pops out more easily Craig
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TomDeGraaff
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No worries :thumbup:
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meepmeeps
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i will have to remember that but ive always been against inbreeding because i thought you end up with dodgy chicks lol
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