constant infertile gouldian eggs :(

[Perryheslop]

Hi everyone. My name is perry and I would loooove some advice about my gouldian finches. This is the first season I've bred Gouldians. I've bred lots of other finches in past years but Gouldians are just spectacular! The problem I'm having is that I've had 5 pairs of Gouldians lay eggs since January this year (in my breeding cages) but none of the eggs are fertile! I know this coz after a month of the birds sitting on the eggs, I candled them, and they are all clear (now I candle them after a week). Very disappointing!! 3 of the pairs are normal Gouldians and the other 2 pairs are split to blue. I definitely know it's not the diet coz I give them everything from soaked seed (with vitamins and egg crumbs and cod liver oil) and fresh egg everyday and millet. Also, the pairs are from 2 different breeders so don't think its how they are breeding their Gouldians. Or is it??! If they use society finches to foster gouldian eggs, does that affect the fertility rate when those fledglings grow into adults and breed? Maybe there are imprinting issues from birth and when they are adults they dont quite 'understand' the process of mating with another gouldian to reproduce? I'm only clutching at straws here (no pun intended), but I have seen a few of those pairs of Gouldians mating, so it's not like there's no action at all. I do know some of the birds are only a year old, so this would be their first clutch, but after 5 pairs the same, something's wrong for sure. I'm really at a loss at what could be the cause of the problem. I'm getting frustrated and after spending an awful lot of $$ on setting my cages up and buying my birds (I've got 15 pairs now, half have the blue gene), it's discouraging too. oh, most of my birds are currently housed in my garage, some are outside in my avairy (but those in the aviary have not laid eggs yet). Any advice would be muchly appreciated. Thanks heaps

[finches247]

Hi Perry & Welcome to the Forum

[garyh]

Hi Perry,does sound perplexing ,i dont feed my goulds any egg at all but wouldn't think that would make them infertile,try some silver beet and fresh seeding grasses,my main thought is that the birds may have been heavily medicated which can cause infertility,with society finches im not sure never used them but i think the eggs would still be fertile,garyh

[E Orix]

You will get a number of theories and you will need to work out which may assist.
Gouldians are now most likely the easiest specie we have to breed so if yours aren't breeding there is
definitely something amiss.
It could be night time disturbances with the sitting birds being scared off their eggs at night and not returning
until dawn and the eggs have chilled. Result dead in the shell or just won't hatch.
But for my own choice it is your diet, because you are cage breeding it is too rich and good.
All the food you have mentioned and feeding to them is good but so fattening and in my opinion not needed.
You still need to give them access to baked egg shell,washed sand and cuttle bone etc.
If birds get too fat especially cock birds then they will become infertile. In your case the birds have limited space
to really exercise and have that diet. Even in an aviary I would limit what you feed.
Gouldians are easily catered for, a normal good quality seed mix and plenty of soaked seed especially when chicks are being fed.
If you have access to grass seeding heads they will take them with relish and are so good for them.
I doubt if they are Bengales reared especially the normal ones as it's just not worth the effort.
In a nutshell ,I think your diet is just too rich, put them all on a basic diet and you should be away.
As for candling the eggs, no need, after the first week you will see the fertile eggs as they will be changing to a chalky white colour.
If no chicks appear after 14 days start worrying and toss the lot if they are more than 21days.
Checking a nest is only require a couple of times until hatching then if you wish every 2nd or 3rd day. Many clutches are lost
by people checking too often.
As for those outside a similar diet, also females will lay even when they are not in condition, check the females beaks and if they
have turned grey/black then they should be in condition to be laying.

[Craig52]

My thoughts exactly E Orix,again well said Craig

Oh and welcome to the Forum Perry

[branchez]

Welcome to the Forum Perry.
Jack

[Perryheslop]

Thanks to everyone for ur welcomes and comments. much appreciated! Yes, I do feel there is something weird going on that needs to be addressed. Garyh, I've taken ur suggestion on board and bought some silverbeet for the birds. I don't feed them many greens so that reminded me to. I am also thinking of purchasing from a 3rd breeder and see if that makes a difference. perhaps they have been highly medicated. An update though, my yellow backs left their eggs a few days ago (yes another pair!). i checked the eggs today and 3 were fertile and 2 weren't. While im upset that they simply stopped sitting on the eggs, it's good to know that some were fertile. They are already building their 2nd nest in a brand new cage. fingers crossed! EOrix, if it's their diet that's making them 'fat', to me they still look like the skinny little birds when I first bought them...hehe As you suggested tho, I will cut back on the ingredients I add to my soaked seed and make it a simple mix. Also, I rarely check the nests for eggs or babies, I just monitor their behaviour outside the nest which pretty much tells me what's going on inside the nest. I'm too scared to check coz there is a slight chance they wont go back and sit again! hehe And, I don't think the infertility is caused by night frights as they are safe and sound in my garage at night, nothing can really bother them. To be honest, im still looking forward and trying to figure out exactly what the cause is. I have changed a few things already (thanks to your wonderful advice ) but I am feeling I still can't quite put my finger on what's going on. I know time will give me the answers, it always does, but it's frustrating to wait, especially when i'm so passionate about it and get so much energy from it. Thanks guys!

[bob21358]

Great advice from E Orix. Also make sure there is plenty of calcium available - Shell grit, cuttlebone etc.

Note that you have infertile eggs - as opposed to fertile eggs that don't hatch. The problem can be obesity, but you have said they are quite skinny.

Hopefully your birds are not too old. Once they reach a certain age breeding results drop dramatically.

Also check to see that your perches are secure, and that there is enough head room for the male to mount the female properly, especially the top perch.

Maybe it is a privacy thing - as a long shot, try moving the cages around. You never know might work.

Let us know how you go,

[Perryheslop]

hi bob, thanks for posting. yes there is plenty of room for the male to mount the female. Maybe the birds are too old, or alternatively too young?? Also, I supply plenty of cuttlebone and grit in their cages. DOes anyone know of a good breeder in Melbourne that is trustworthy, where I could purchase a normal pair of gouldians that are not too young or too old? I've been told that the sign of a young bird is that their legs aren't scaly and they have a light fleshy skin tone. All my birds have this, none are scaly. hmmmm...

[garyh]

Pm me or call 0407542968,garyh