Carbon Tax Good or Bad

[Tiaris]

I have post-grad economics quals & I fail to see how an extra cost impost backed up by equivalent compensation to consumers will have any market-driven effect on anything. Our jobs heading offshore is the only global effect which appears obvious.
Further, whilst having a very open mind I still haven't seen any public scientific debate on the carbon climate debate & man's place in that. All scientific reference in public arena is by indoctrinated believers & disbelievers - discenting views are ridiculed & discredited without examining the issue.

[Diane]

When I was younger so much younger than today ooops damn ADD .

What add? See how much commerical tv I watch?
I thought it was lyrics from the Beatles "Help" song.....*singing the rest of the song*
"I never needed anybody's help in any way.
But now these days are gone, I'm not so self assured,
Now I find I've changed my mind and opened up the doors."

You do know that I will be singing that for days now!

[E Orix]

What really annoys me are the Greens and other tree huggers and others spouting off about pollution here in Australia and how
we should take drastic steps to SAVE the WORLD.
What we contribute(except for the car) is minute. They should travel over seas and just look at the countries around the world
who just don't give a RATS!! about pollution,I have visited some Asian cities many times and never seen the Sun through a heavy yellow,brown pollution cloud
People walking around with face masks on and in the distance chimneys pouring out black smoke not steam. By the way not too far as otherwise you wouldn't see them.Not just poor countries but socalled developed nations as well. That famous Hollywood sign you see so proudly displayed, you only get a clear view of it when the wind blows from a certain direction if it doesn't the sign is nearly hidden by the pollution.
Why a Carbon tax when the greatest polluter the car is exempt!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please I am not talking party politics but all I can see is disaster for our country while we are being controlled by one red head,two idiotic independants and what can I say about that legend(in his mind) Brown.Please a balanced Labour party or Liberal party.
Sadly I can't support the Greens as they have no idea about balance,their way and the rest are totally wrong.
What ever we do will have zero effect on the rest of the world. I guess they are trying to be the "Mouse that Roared"

[GregH]

Well I can see my view is in the minority here so I'll risk balancing the other posts. Perhaps I've missed a lot of the debate by living in the Philippines but I work in a field and in an organisation that is at the forefront of redressing the effects climate change so I don't believe my views are irrationally based or ill founded. Granted that a percentage of global polluters Australian's add no more than 1.5% of carbon emmissions to the atmosphere compared to the 19% each that China & the US contribute but on a per head basis Australians are the largest contributeres even before you add the natural gas and coal that is burned somewhare else (mostly China). Unilateral action by Australia will make little impact on the global equation but global action appears to be beyond the capacity of national goverments (witness the last two UN sponsored conferences on Global Climate Change in Kyoto & Copenhagen) politial/human interest is short-term and focuses only on the immediate self and surrounds. So where does this leave Australia? Should we 'fiddle while Rome burns' or should we face the facts? What facts are there? They are in the scientific literature but how they are interpreted is the problem. The scientific consencus is that anthropogenic climate change is real and is largely fueled by carbondioxide emissions and can be redressed by stopping emissions and allowing the planetary ecosystem to lock the carbon away. Unfortunately the benefit won't be realised for generations but the cost will be borne by those generations. Our present high standard of living in Australia has come about because we unknowingly and now deliberately deplete the future. Australia might only contribute a small percetage of the CO2 but we enjoy the benefits of an advanced technological society that could not have developed as rapidly as it did without fossil fuels or a terrifiingly huge global population that gives us acess to the cheap consumer goods and scientific advances.

On the other side of the coin who wants to like like they did in the 1800s? I'm not avocating a return to that but if we continue the way we're going then even a stoneage existance will be impossible. Mistakes will be made in implimenting a carbon market but that doesn't absove us from the responibility of attemting to introduce a system that works and then continually adjusting the system to make it better. An anlagous and more finch based argument could be made about the degredation of the tropical savannah woodlands since European settlement. If you read the last ABK about the role of fire and nesting holes for Gouldians it seems that what's good for pastoralists exporting beef to Indonesia (and the southern states) has been disasterous for Gouldians. Even if it were possible to replant all of this region tomorrow it would take 100 years of 'natural' management to restore the system to what it was there only 100 yeas ago but that is more than enough time for a species that only lives 2-3 years to go extinct. Fortunately the Gouldian is still with us but not so the Southern Star and again land management to benefit cattle was to blame for their demise. While this has little to do with carbon sequestration it illustrates the point that human activity impacts adversly on the environment and that if society chooses to change the situation then those involved in the offending industries will lose out but the majority will gain and environment will not be depleted though human misuse but it will take generations.

PS For those that want to argue about volcanoes please read this article http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 255476.htm

[jusdeb]

Tried to buy a piece of foam to restore a chair ..$30 and the reason for it being so dear , directly attributed to the carbon tax . Foam rubber is now not an affordable item .

That came straight from the mouth of staff at Clarke Rubber in Dubbo ...they are one of the companies that are going to be hit hard .


I hate to say it but ....most people are kinda concerned about the here and now . Most Aussies live from one paycheck to another , it doesn't take much for things to go pear shaped financially .
My point is most people are worried about paying the mortgage , feeding the kids etc so the state of the planet comes in way behind the every day need to provide for the family .
This is going to hurt people , we dont understand it we just know its more hard earned $$$$ being taken from us .

[gouldianpaul]

I'm with you Tiaris...how does paying more for basic living items save the environment...we haven't seen any details on that....I can only see this resulting in the cost of keeping birds increasing...freight costs, the cost of processing suppliments and additives we give our birds will all increase....and these costs are all hidden, so unlike the GST which is clearly shown, they will be built into the cost of every day items and we won't know to what extent.

There is one thing we can do....remember how Australia has 3 cities (Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane) in the top 20 most expensive cities in the world...yes it costs more to live in Melbourne today than it does to live in New York.....we can all remember this the next time there is a federal election....and get rid of Bob Brown and his tree hugging cronies....let's be realistic...labor might be running the milk bar, but the green's are controlling what goes through the front door.

Oh yeah...i'd also like to know that if using coal for producing electricity is such a bad thing then why do we continue to export so much of it to China and India....just hold on folks if this mob stay in power long enough Australia will also be a 3rd world country.....but at least we were the first to introduce a carbon tax....makes me proud (not).

here is an example of how stupid our system is....I recently built a new home...so I installed 2 water tanks totallying 20,000 litres....I did it because I want to minimise my usage of mains pressure water....now I use less than half the water I once did....and my water bill has almost doubled...why, because our water bill is based on the value of my house...only 25% of the bill is based on consumption.....I'm not regretting installing the tanks as it is the right thing to do...but our pollies provide no incentive to look after our water resources.....can't wait for the extra charges to pay for the decel plant....

[arthur]

In Qld . . "The Smart State" . . the price of electricity has gone up because people have been energy conscious and have used less

How's that for an incentive

On the carbon tax

If the stock-market doesn't like it, I don't either . . and it DOESN'T

[MadHatter]

GregH gave voice to my feelings on this subject far more eloquently than i ever could, so i'll just say that whatever he said goes doubly for me.

I sincerely feel badly for those who will be adversely affected as a result, but I do think the short term pain will be outweighed by the long term gain. My main concern is with implementation. The Labor government has made a meal of implementing a number of the otherwise laudable programs, such as the home insulation scheme. I'll be thouroughly pi$$ed if they stuff this up too, but I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt... or enough rope to hang themselves with.

[Tiaris]

Is there any doubt that they won't stuff this up too? They've stuffed up every major policy initiative so far.
The economics of stupidity - Tax ourselves under a global model whilst the rest of the world does nothing.
Whilst ever the world's major emitters by volume (China, US, India, Japan) do not adopt a carbon trading scheme, for us to do so is deliberately causing enormous economic pain at home for no positive environmental outcome at all.
The notion that some policy movement must be a good thing if our intentions are admirable is stupidity in the extreme.
Typical of a government with a ready, fire, aim approach to governance.

[arthur]

https://www.cleanenergyfuture.gov.au/he ... estimator/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Being from the Gov't . . you may need to be a little bit wary