antibiotic question

[jusdeb]

Touch wood Ive only ever had to administer antibiotics once before to a bird , this was done under a vets recommendation which was followed up with probiotics .

Im currently treating a Quarrion for a weepy eye which I suspect happened when I put her into the quaranteen aviary ( he thrashed about a bit ) anyhoo Im using triple c powder for 5 - 7 days and my question is .....do I do the probiotic thing after the antibiotics ? And for how long ?

Thanks folks ...

[Danny]

I'd be putting my money on Chlamydophilus infection (Psittacosis) as top of your list so I'd be recommending 7 weeks antibiotics, not 7 days, preferably with a doxycycline based product. Probiotics may assist after this, if you use a bird specific probiotic.

[gomer]

Yes a probotic is supposed to be used after the CCC.It reestablishes the natural gut flora. As far as your treatment for this particular bird ditto what Danny said unless you are 100% sure it just damaged it thrashing.But then again it sounds like a new bird and who wants to take a chance.

[jusdeb]

Would Psittacossis present other symptoms ?
So far its 1 eye which is watery and the eyelid is closed a little .

[jusdeb]

Where do I get Doxy please ?

Do I use the triple c while I search for Doxy ?

Cant find it online anywhere ...

[jusdeb]

Yes it is a new bird so I cant take a guess on it being an injury ...will ring breeder and vet in the am. Thanks for the help .

[mattymeischke]

Sorry about your crook quarrion, Deb.

I am not a vet, but I have some knowledge of these things.
I did a little research on your probiotic question, and came back to find lots more questions.
I shall try to take them in a logical order.

Would Psittacossis present other symptoms ?

(this answer is a paraphrase from Michael Cannon's excellent book: Basic Health and Disease in Birds (ABK))

Psittacosis can have no symptoms. Often a happy, healthy bird may be a carrier without signs of illness. When they become stressed - eg: new environment, handling - the disease may become evident.
Other signs which may be seen alone or in combination include:
depression
not eating
weight loss
watery eyes
excess urine (often green)
diarrhoea (bright green to black)
runny nose
blinking or partly closed eyes
plugging of nostrils
sneezing

The conjunctivitis could also be due to numerous other infections, including influenza (viral, in which case no antibiotics would be needed) or Mycoplasma.

A vet should be able to detect psittacosis with simple pathology test.

Where do I get Doxy please ?

I'm pretty sure you need a vet to prescribe doxycycline. I believe that weekly injections are more effective than daily oral dosing, and give a definite and more accurate dose. Dr. Cannon's book suggests seven injections.

Do I use the triple c while I search for Doxy ?

Better than a poke in the eye with a burnt stick, I suppose, as it would cover many of the less sinister possible causes for this conjunctivitis. If you have started, I would continue until you see the vet. If you haven't started it yet, then wait for a veterinary opinion.

.....do I do the probiotic thing after the antibiotics ? And for how long ?

My species of interest is not a bird, so my expertise is not necessarily relevant.
From limited studies of cows and sheep there is some (weak) evidence for benefit from probiotics post-antibiotics.
In humans, it is often effective in treating antibiotic-associated colitis and (weak evidence) useful in restoring normal bowel function in people with diarrhoea or constipation after a course of antibiotics.
Interestingly, there is also evidence for probiotics in conditions as diverse as inflammatory bowel disease, asthma and eczema.
My feeling is that where there is a problem after the antibiotics, they may help. However, where there are no complications attending the antibiotic therapy, there is no real evidence that it provides any benefit.
I was intrigued by the notion of finches (and passerines more generally) having a sterile gut, but I am yet to be convinced.
If this were true, it would pull the theoretical rug out from under the use of probiotics.
The author of some of the articles suggested that swabs taken from the intestine of passerines grew no bugs, but other authors claim to have grown normal gut flora.

As I am a compulsive empiricist, and have a small laboratory at my disposal, I am intending to swab some finch guts myself, and see what grows with standard culture techniques. I will advise the forum of my results, of course, but I will be surprised if nothing grows.

Hope this post is more useful than annoying; do keep us posted, Deb.

[jusdeb]

Very helpful Matty . Very much appreciated also .Thank you

[Danny]

Would Psittacossis present other symptoms ?
So far its 1 eye which is watery and the eyelid is closed a little .

A single watery eye is a common presentation of psittacosis IME in cockateils, Neophemas, princess, redrumps etc - often with feather loss where they have been rubbing the eye on the perch.It may well be something else but in the absence of a crystal ball, treat for it. You treat it, it gets better, you treat it again, its gets better but it just keeps coming back. Mycoplasma oftem play a secondary role once the damage is done. Before we had Doxycycline (which is a prescription drug) we used Chlortetracycline and oxytetracycline - it will work but not always as effectively. Be aware it is a zoonotic disease and can transfer to humans particularly immune suppressed, very young or very old persons. Flu type symptoms that fail to respond to normal treatment would be a reason to see your GP. Keep it separate, feed and treat it last.

[jusdeb]

Well the panic has settled . Talk about timing ...sick humans and a bird with a watery eye .

The birds eye is dry today , there are no other symptoms to indicate the bird is sick . Im happy to treat this as an eye injury .

The other half has seen our doctor who knows we keep birds as it is mentioned any time one of us starts feeling a bit fluey.

If nothing else this has been a slap up the head and a reinforcing exercise in the importance of quaranteen .

Of course Pssitacosis will play heavily on my mind for a while to come and Ill be aware of symptoms and ready to act .

Thank you for your help and Matty thank you for taking the time to respond in such detail .