Gouldians/what are we?

[ColouredFeathers]

Natambo
I breed Aust/yellow and have purple breast and white breast and lilac breast,
the problem here is that the breeder shoud have told him what mutations it is
and that there are 2 type off yellows.

[finchbreeder]

I suspect it is possible that the supplier did not know the difference either. And we are both female so the only he's are birds.
Problem is that the original bird from the other post looked very yellow and was white breasted. But he had no greenish feathering on this back so maybe he was a very good Euro?
Mum is busy working out the genetic outcome of the chicks to see if that will tell her if the cock is one the other or split (original yellow cock) and this could also shed light on the possibility of this cock (this thread) also being split for both (is this possible?) or not as his (RH's) daughter was put to YH Yellow. Before it struck home that 2 types could be being crossed.
LML

[natamambo]

Flavio, I don't understand your comment. It seems to imply that you say you have bred Aus yellow with purple breasts, this cannot be. The mutant gene causes an absence of melanin, therefore an Aus yellow cannot have a purple breast.

FB, there are three genes which cause an absence of melanin & therefore the missing green and purple (a modified reddish brown) colours:
* The sex linked one - Euro yellow - is co-dominant, hence the SF and DF issue. It affects only the back.
* The breast colour one which causes lilac and white breasts. In the case of the LB it is only partially removing the melanin for some reason. WB birds are usually slightly more olive than PB birds, suggesting there is some interaction between the genes controlling back and breast colour.
* The Aus Yellow one which causes, well, yellow birds with white breasts. This affects both back and breast.

My genetics background suggests that white breasted and Aus yellow are mutations of the same gene but only gene sequencing would prove that (a PhD topic for the likes of NRG or Jayburd coming up ). The Aus yellow mutation appeared from a pairing of white breasted birds.

The interaction between the sex linked and recessive genes means that WB SF Euro Yellows and LB SF Euro Yellows can be almost pure yellow. I have a LB DF Euro Yellow which is bright canary yellow, the brightness amazed Flavio when he saw it. This bird is also much brighter in the red on the head than a normal RH bird, suggesting there is a small amount of melanin in the head controlled by the same gene as the breast colour.

It fascinates me that genes controlling the production of melanin exist for different areas of the body.

[ColouredFeathers]

NATAMAMBO
You said you have not seen an AUS/yellow with purple breast.
It is not a full on purple but it is 3/4. I believe in it's next malt, it will produce purple breast.
His father was the same as him, and he produced me a purple breast.
Look at the picture, and see what you think, not the best picture, but that's the best i could get.
His the one in the centre facing you next to the silver cock.
Cheers, Flavio.

[natamambo]

Flavio, is it purple or blue (similar to a dirty white bird being blue)? It's hard to tell from your pic.

I'd love to see the bird and talk to you more about it's parentage and siblings. Getting a better picture of the genetics and processes at work here fascinates me.

[Mr Tino]

Hi natammbo did you go to the geelong bird sale in 2011,if you did you would have seen a australian recessive yellow with a full front purple breast bird for sale which it did sell,also there was another one there too with a purple breast with a little bit of white in the chest too,as you said where it is blue in the chest.

cheer from tony(tino)

[natamambo]

Hi Tony, no I didn't get to Geelong. Try again with your last sentence, I don't quite understand "as you where it is blue in the chest".

[Mr Tino]

Hi natammbo what you said dirty white being blue I have seen the gouldian and it not what you are saying,I can tell different between blue and purple in colour .

cheer from tony

[natamambo]

Ahh, Tony, now I understand your sentence. Wasn't querying your colour blindness just asking because it's hard to tell from that pic.

I've sent an email to one of the pioneers of the mutation as it was my understanding from them that purple wasn't possible based on their breedings. If it is happening we may have a further mutation developing and that's where my interest lies.

[Mr Tino]

Hi natammbo not to be rude(myself)I have being breeding gouldian for 20 years playing around with most of the mutation what is still around,also I have learm't alot from past and present from friends, also I did my own experiment with my own birds, I have done alot of work to get my birds in top form,I also know about genetics but I don't like going in to much details, it can get confusing for some people for the first time to understand.

cheer from tony(tino)