Would like an update on the Lowes bird clearance sale

[avishoot]

The ones I know about are going in new indoor flights.
I can under stand their reasoning but it doesn't really go with our outdoor systems
I just wonder if long term that is the wrong way to go about it.
A prime example is the Red Crested Finch years ago,keep it in small flights and pull the cockbird out as he will kill the youngsters
Today let them loose in a planted flight,leave them alone and providing you give them an adequate diet, surprise, surprise, they survived,the
cockbirds even help in feeding the chicks and breeding results far better. It maybe not for the Twin Spots but maybe it should be trialed.
If we had not cosseted the cardinals they wouldn't have got so fat and stop breeding,maybe we would still have them in big numbers.
If only!!!!!

i have seen two attempts at establishing peters twinspots in open - semi open aviaries by very experienced aviculturists. the peters were bred successfully and in reasonable numbers however they lost seemingly healthy birds in equally reasonable numbers. the loss of birds did not seem to follow a pattern ie temperature related, breeding , moulting etc thus making it difficult to pin down an appropriate action to prevent these losses. its unfortunate that they may only ever be available to those willing to breed in indoor protected flights as they are magnificent birds.

[Danny]

Its been much the same up here - very experienced breeders doing well with them indoors. Give them access to the real world and off the perch they go. The problem as I see it is that their is no effort whatsoever from the primary breeders to try and 'toughen up the line' with some real world exposure. They breed them soft and sell them soft. If you don't follow the instructions to keep them soft, they don't make it to breed a better bird. The effort needs to be made by the new breeders now so that we still have them in 10 years time and the average punter has a chance of keeping one in an average aviary.

[desertbirds]

Whats your best guess as to why the birds die ? Is it due to their habit of being ground dwelling and then picking up a bacterial infections ?
Ive often thought some of these species may do better in really dry climates, its not so much the rainfall but the humidity that could be causing issues.

[Jayburd]

I agree with DB about humidity... I remember someone here (Monique?) saying a while back that you can't keep violet ears near the coast in south Africa for that reason.

[Diane]

Couple of links for Peters Twinspots, one small mention of temp and elevation on this page
http://www.nfss.org/Birds/Species/Finch ... t-Pet.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some one is having success with outdoor Twinspots according to this Youtube video. I dont know where they are located though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO79yAa9SaU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SamDavis]

Appearance wise they always look well built, stocky and strong so it's always surprised me how soft they are. Crystal Pet and Wire at Rooty Hill had 2 cocks for sale ($300 each?) a few months ago. I think Charlie said they'd also had 2 pairs which sold in an instant. I didn't get them as I figured it would be impossible to source hens. I wonder who the breeder was?

[Myzomela]

Well, I'm going to be unpopular with my comments but here goes.

You can't compare twinspots or any other waxbill to cardinals and buntings like red crested finches. I agree that these two species are far better suited to outdoor aviaries than cabinets or indoor flights.

I totally agree with them not selling the twinspots to those with outside flights. With birds this rare and with the biology of a waxbill it would be irresponsible to do so.
As recent experiences have shown, the losses with these birds in open aviaries are just too high to risk the small gene pool we have. Once the numbers build up, THEN we can try to harden them off, selecting those birds(hens in particular) which can cope.

I don't understand the attitude of "it's my way or the high way". I've seen lots of rare waxbills lost in open outside flights because instead of us providing the environment the birds require, we make the birds fit into our existing aviary set up.

We wouldn't have lost as many violet ears, twinspots and the few bamboo parrot finches we once had if a little more thought had been put into the bird's needs and some consideration given to where they'd come from.
Don't get me wrong- I'm not into keeping birds soft. But from my experience hardening off dry country waxbills needs to be done gradually, and with a reasonable number of birds to play with, not when numbers are low.

[wagga]

Wonder if the previous experienced ex twinspot breeders could be enticed to enlighten the finch community with their valuable knowledge concerning these rare birds. This would help others to prevent any unnecessary losses and increase breeding results. Did these healthy dead birds have vet postmortums performed.
Apart from the Lowes ex breeding stock what would be guess /estimated of the population left in Australia.

[E Orix]

I take all your comments on board but you can design an outdoor set up to assist in toughening them up. It might mean only letting them
go outside when conditions are good.Let them get their feet dirty and some sunshine ,you may have to do this for a couple of generations
but its possible to get change.I have some friends that are avid cage breeders and their results are very good but I personally feel more comfortable
not using internal breeding cages/aviaries.Just my opinion.

[Myzomela]

Your experience and opinion are very highly respected Eorix and I totally agree with your comments re exposure to sunlight etc but as you say it can take several generations. In fact that is the ideal way to do it for those with the time and resources.

I just hate it when these birds are thrown straight out into totally outdoor aviaries and die, then the breeders blame the sellers that their birds are too soft.

I think that it's great that we all choose to keep birds differently. We end up finding a lot more about our birds this way. Personally I think there is a place for all housing types, but some species do better under certain housing conditions.