Aussie Finch Forum

And yes my cock does have a small white feather under the chin. And the % of pied chicks produced has increased to 75% with a pied hen.
LML

Lonchura wrote: I commend Henry the Kiwi for his attitude

Treat every finch as if It's rare, because you have it today but... maybe not tomorrow.

Too True Lonchura

If as you say a java with white feathers under it's chin is split ,split to what.
I am of the opinion that the white feathers do not indicate a split bird to pied.
If this was so you would surely breed birds with more white feathers.
For many years I was breeding Javas here as my winter breeders. Empty out an aviary late Autumn and stock it with javas and sit back.
We bred over 300 in 4 years, all normal coloured birds(white spots and all)NON were produced with any other white feathers.
This line of thought has annoyed me for years mainly due to a clash I had with a bird shower, I was the judge and gave the Champion Bird
to a Normal Java. It ended up that the bird had one white feather. He wanted it to be thrown out. I wouldn't move on my decision and my opinion
still hasn't changed.
If they are not normal then they could possibly be a mutation carrying the spot but a PIED!!!!
All ways open to be jumped on

Found this photo of a "silver" Java on the net

Can remember as a kid (many moons ago, probably before our stocks were proliferated with the various mutations), the guy around the corner kept and bred normal javas. When he sold them he used to sex them by the white under the chin - whilst this was probably (or just plain wrong) wrong, it does indicate that the white spot under the chin was present long before our stocks were "tainted" for want of a better word.

E Orix wrote:If as you say a java with white feathers under it's chin is split ,split to what.
I am of the opinion that the white feathers do not indicate a split bird to pied.
If this was so you would surely breed birds with more white feathers.
For many years I was breeding Javas here as my winter breeders. Empty out an aviary late Autumn and stock it with javas and sit back.
We bred over 300 in 4 years, all normal coloured birds(white spots and all)NON were produced with any other white feathers.
This line of thought has annoyed me for years mainly due to a clash I had with a bird shower, I was the judge and gave the Champion Bird
to a Normal Java. It ended up that the bird had one white feather. He wanted it to be thrown out. I wouldn't move on my decision and my opinion
still hasn't changed.
If they are not normal then they could possibly be a mutation carrying the spot but a PIED!!!!
All ways open to be jumped on

That depends on the nature of the pied genetics. Lets compare it with an equivalent situation in peafowl. The pied gene is controlled by three, possibly four genes. It is the combination of these genes that determines the outcome - dark pied (just a couple of feathers), mid pied, reverse pied or white. If we mate pied to pied we get some pieds, lots of dark pieds and some whites. If we mate reverse pieds to pieds we get the same but with a few reverse pieds as well. If we mate dark pied to normal we get dark pieds or normals. If we mate dark pied to white we get 100% stunning pieds. I suspect the same applies to javas. Its easy to prove - white chins to normals vs white chin to white or near white matings can be easily applied to see the results. I think the term split pied is technically a misnomer for the white chinned birds - maybe dark pied like the peafowl is more appropriate.
\

I won't argue on genetics but the bird with the white dot is to me either a normal bird or a set mutation but I can't accept that
It's a split. Unless someone can put up a real good explanation designed for dummies.

So lets define my "normal" cock with one white feather under the chin as a dark pied x hen 75% white 25% dark = reverse pied.
Year 1 = 5 like dad & 4 pieds varying from 60/70% white
Year 2 = 5 all like mum or whiter = reverse pied
Year 3 lets see shall we
LML

E Orix wrote:I won't argue on genetics but the bird with the white dot is to me either a normal bird or a set mutation but I can't accept that
It's a split. Unless someone can put up a real good explanation designed for dummies.

I thought thats what I did ?? As above, I don't believe it's a split in the typical sense - it's one component of what is needed to produce a more striking pied. Alone it cannot achieve this. Think of it like this - you need blue, yellow and white paint to produce light green paint. Alone or in other combinations, you won't get light green paint - you'll get green, light blue, light yellow. You have to combine all the paint in the right way to get the result.

I still have to think this one through.