RESPONSIBILITY

[panthersteve]

To ELFEROZ 777, My definition of an EAGLE BEAGLE is , the persons on this forum that take an interest in the LEGAL Aspect of our hobby. People that do know about " Code of Practice"
and other Laws that pertain to the keeping of birds.

Thanks

I never heard that term before.

Looks like a twist on the "legal eagle" phrase but more like a bush lawyer

[arthur]

Plenty of ways to rort DNA sexing . . if you are unscrupulous

Sadly, it's a big bad world out there, and if you can't look after yourself, take your mother with you

Used car salesmen, real estate salesmen, roof painters, . . even politicians . . have shonks among them

" Let the buyer beware!" has stood the test of time, and still applies to the even most 'regulated' areas of life



And, for younger members of the forum . .

I have extreme doubts about the Tooth Fairy

[E Orix]

There a few aspects to this, having bought and sold birds for many years I have always worked on the theory Buyer Beware.
I normally sell 1st year birds at sales but if they are not young ,people are told and the birds are sold at a special price.
Ballarat 4 Blue Faced P/Finches 2 to 3 years old $30 the lot.
DNA sexing, how many buyers are willing to add $32 per pair to cover the cost, many won't spend an extra $5 to buy a bird they desperately need.
Yes I have many birds DNA'd and rung with a special metal ring to ID that bird. The ring will show if it has been opened. Why do I get them DNA'd yes to sex them but more importantly to protect myself from people claiming that the hens they got turned out to be cockbirds. I know dam well that most were
not sexed wrongly but it was their word to mine.
Each year I sell around 100 young Tri and White Headed Nuns, they are all sold just colouring and sold on the basis that sexing is an educated guess.
Why do I sell all,simple ,I sell them for $35 or $30 each which is less than the going rate. Most buy a number let them bond and if they wish move some of them on fully coloured which offsets the cost.
I will not go into it but most birds lost after purchase is generally the purchasers actions from sale to home and the following 24 hours.
There is no way of creating regulations those people who would be given the task can't regulate themselves so what hope a new set bestowed on them.

[Alf63]

There seems to be a falsehood here that DNA is always accurate.

I have two birds DNA sexed ealier this year as cocks that are now most definately hens. Not the first time it has happened over the years and from more tham one laboratory. I purchased a DNA hen Grenadier weaver last year and paid a premium. It partially coloured in Spring as a cock. I approached the breeder and he informed he has never had a wrong result and wasn't interested in doing anything even though the bird had his ring on it.

Having kept a number of parrots over the years that I have on on more that one occasion had DNA'd birds that never bred. Only to have them surgically sexed to find they had small testes or no oviaries etc. Do we also want to insist the seller provides a vets certificate with a sperm count or other relevant medical info.

I have people haggle over birds at every sale I attend adding the cost of DNA sexing would put off more than 90% of buyers
If you only want DNA sexed birds then pay the premium but don't force unnecessary codes on everybody. If you took a chance and they didn't turn out be a pair, so be it. If you researched the birds and know they are hard to visually sex the as others have said in the end its "buyer beware". Both parties in the transaction have "responsibility"

[murf]

Tend to agree with the general experiences of others. Similar principles apply to everyday dealings in life. I'm interested in people who offer as much information as possible, or have heard positive remarks about. I've been into finches for sometime and certainly cannot claim 100% in sexing, so don't worry too much about others, so long as they are upfront with it. Then the decision is mine as to buy or not. Vets, doctors, police (unless my speedo is wrong) and basically anyone get it wrong from my experiences. Can you trust me? ......... Show me your money first.

[COUNTRY CAPITAL]

@ arthur....closet mummies boy for sure!!!

sorry but i am in the buyer beware camp too, with small birds like we have you can dot all the I's and cross the T's and still end up with egg on your face.
murphy's law will dictate that once you have that perfect bonded, dna'd pair home "safe" that the hen will up and die or become some butcherbirds lunch.
buy from an experienced breeder/seller and pick his brains as much as you can....now and then you may get burned....we all do but you will learn from the "experience" and fast-track your own learning.
most buyers of under $100/pair birds wont cop the $32 or so per par for dna result in my experience.
as a buyer i would probably prefer to give it a educated guess and buy an extra bird or two, for the aformentioned drop-dead reasons!!

the only other answer i can offer is buy/breed dimorphic species only!

[finchbreeder]

the only other answer i can offer is buy/breed dimorphic species only!
Oh But the hard to sex ones are just as much fun. Think I will just keep on buying from the people who have a good name and the birds i want.
LML

[Tiaris]

DNA sexing is a great tool for taking out guesswork in most situations but I fear that it is also an excuse for many people to not bother using the power of observation of subtle physical and behavioural differences as well (which is all we had to rely on in the past). In some ways there was also alot to be said for buying 6-8 young birds partly coloured, ring them all differently & allowing them to mature together & pick their own mate(s). This certainly resulted in the ultimate in compatable breeding pairs.

[Spitfire]

Well it seems to me that this item is going to be put in the TOO HARD basket. I will have to agree with most post, that bringing regulation by Government is a waste of time.
I would still like to see Clubs and Societys at least discussing the problem within their own sphere of influence and maybe in the future, we could see some thing done within their membership and at Birdsales.
Now in relation to the 4 pair of Diamonds that I bought prior to the Ballarat Sale at the Breeders premesis, I can honestly say that he explained all the pros and cons why they were cocks or they were hens. He also stated that he was giving me more hens than cocks. I stated that in my opinion they were all cocks , because they all had a maroon beak,
except one which had a red coral beak. As it turned out the red beak one was also a cock and there were 7 cock birds altogether. As I say ....you can be an expert but in a lot of Aussie Finches its a fifty fifty Raffle. That is why the Aussie game of Two-Up
is the fairest form of gambling. fifty fifty chance of winning and LOSING.

[TomDeGraaff]

There seem to be less in the printed avicultural media about sexing birds and also about the differences between subspecies. Such descriptions are found written in the body of an article usually. It would be helpful if we could help educate people more about those subtle differences that can help you improve your chances. Maybe this is what we can take from this topic.

A dry article giving descriptions is never read by those who need it! Drawings and diagrams (backing up written stuff) would, I feel, engage the reader and give them a more instataneous reference. BUT not many of us are good at the drawing. My crayons are never sharp enough and the birds don't sit still and smile for me