Re: Water

[BluJay]

KIss = keep it simple sailor

Not wanting to hijack this thread but Blujay I ask you this - do you use any cleansing agents in your own drinking water on a daily or weakly basis.

Nuff said.

http://www.public.health.wa.gov.au/cpro ... inalv2.pdf

http://www.pure-earth.com/chlorine.html

http://fluoridealert.org/articles/50-reasons/

[E Orix]

Watering methods and quality has been debated and will continue over and over.
Even very experienced breeders will have methods and theories poles apart
My personal opinion is firstly I do not use any sanitiser or additives at all.
I am fortunate to have my own water bore so I do not need to use the reticulated water with the chemicals our water board thinks we need.
No fluoride as my birds don't have teeth!!!
Personally I do not have a reticulated self changing watering system. My water bowls are terracotta with a good healthy green algae build up
on the sides but the water is clean and free from droppings. In my big aviary I have a water feature which is running all the time. It draws water
from a large bath set in the ground and is a major requirement in the warmer weather. I also have my slime pond once again a bath set in the ground
with water plants it is a living structure but not circulated. There are several species who use it as their drinking facility but it is used by all to
get there intake of string algae for their diet. The algae is a serious part of their diet and even desert species like the Painted frequent the pond to get to the green slime. It seems to be good for them and the feather colouring is far more intense possibly due to the spiralina in the algae.
Make sure the pond water is balanced with plants etc and not stagnant. But no chemicals such as vircon etc.

[rpetersen]

I think it is unforetunate that the question posted got such negative response. I think a simple answer would have been suficient. Yes or know not this whole blah blah thinking. everybody using this forum are alsso learning except those that makes comments like this below.The water cleanser is there to keep water cleaner for a longer period and it is not like it contain sewage as below comment. I would rather not be asking question on this forum if I get this type of responses

why why why on earth do you want to put Virkon in the birds drinking water. Is it contaminated with sewage to something. Normal tap, tank or bore water is fine - blah blah blah chlorine this and fluorine that and heavy metals - get over it - if it is potable water good enough for humans then the birds will do just fine. No where in nature do you find disinfectants in food and water supply. Good cleanliness will be good for you and your birds any day of the week before virkon additive.

Sorry to sound blunt but try as much as possible to use fresh, clean food and water and stand by the KISS principle.

[TomDeGraaff]

I also have an opinion on water. It is a great medium for occasional therapies such as gut conditioners (apple cider vinegar, garlic), wormers, coccidia remedies and stress-aids but I use them occasionally, not permanently. Permanent additives imo are not needed if diets are balanced.
Perhaps some ground waters have different minerals which are palatable to some species but again, if the diet is complete, there's no need to add them.

The original question related to using an antibiotic-style chemical permanently in water to stave off water "going bad". Personally, I would look at a different approach because
-I am uncertain of the long-term effects of these chemicals on our birds,
-developed resistance by microbes to overly-used chemicals is a proven risk and
-to me, feeding and watering our birds is an important daily conection to them and trying to avoid this with chemicals is a little lazy.

Setting up an automated watering system for cages is no more difficult than for aviaries. Using external baths, drilling holes top and bottom, using polytube to feed water in through the top, wider pipes out the bottom feeding into a drainpipe or spoon drain. Timers are available and once or twice a day run the timer for a few minutes will clear the water replacing it totally with fresh.

Perhaps this topic could be started by someone with some pictures to help

In summary, fresh unadulterated water is surely the best imo. Occasional additives are part of general management. Permanent Virkon s to me is a bit too radical and has its risks.
Cheers
Tom

[Tiaris]

I use the same water supply for my birds as my family uses - unfiltered tank (rain) water. I neither filter nor disinfect it for my birds based on the simple principle that I don't see a need to do it for my own family so the birds will be fine on it as is too. I do use additives (ACV, wormers) occasionally in the birds drinking water, but no permanent chemical treatment. I would have serious concerns if my family were on permanently disinfected water & these concerns also apply for any birds on such a chemical rich water supply.

[rpetersen]

Most of us do sprout seeds. And seed can when not treated right grow bacteria which is not good for our birds. Virkon S are used which I think is the same as using it in water.The sprouts absorb the water causing the birds to get it into there system. The question was not to have it permanent in the water. The question was in summer due to the hot weather water tends to carry bacteria due to the constant heat of the sun. This will keep the water fresher for longer. Example a product callled Saniclens in my opinion I think this is Virkon S which are diluted.This are used by bird keepers in the UK and a Birdcare product. I have been using this for 7 years with no ill effect. yes, I do understand that we need to go natural but nothing is natural today even our own tap water contains chlorine and sorts of chemicals. And if you read carefully on the label of Virkon S it says that it can be used to purify water for drinking purposes. Anyway this is my position on this.

Riyaad

[Trilobite]

Gday Riyaad,
Great that you have formed a position and are sticking by your guns. As indicated by a heap of people on here this forum is about offering an opinion and the readers can take out of it what they will. Unfortunately they sometimes get hijacked by emotive spamming but you have to look past this and sort the wheat from the chaff. Apply what works for you and keep improving your aviculture skills.
So on that note some more opinions:
Sprouting seeds using a sterilization agent is totally different to using one in a permanent drinking water supply. Generally using Virkon for you seed sprouting is safe (at manufactures recommendations) for the birds because by the time the seed is being used Virkon will have broken down into mostly harmless substances, potassium salts and oxygen by the time the seed has sprouted. It is not persistent and so it will not carry over into your sprouted seeds, the salts will, but not the nasty part that does the sterilizing (Potassium Peroxomonosulphate plus some surfactants (soaps) and acids)
Be careful of claims that it is used in drinking water to sterilise it. No where on the MDS or official website does Dupont advocate the use in drinking water ( yes it can be used to sterilise watering systems but not the water), nor will most countries permit it as a use in drinking water supplies.
The MDS lists it as a skin irritant so would hate to think what it can do to a birds digestive tract if used permanently.
The heat of the sun is not the primary cause for the growth of the bacteria, growth is dependant on other factors - mostly nutrients (incl salts) and pH (hence why people add in Apple Cider Vinegar). So if you have clean water to start with and keep it clean for the week (ie free of dropping and seed hulls) you will not need to add in more additives then is already in the municipal supply. So save your money and put it into some quality food for the finch health or watering systems.
Most municipal water supplies do add in chlorine in "just the right amount" that will allow some residual benefit by the time it comes out of your tap. Once exposed to the air it will naturally disperse into the atmosphere (even more so when exposed to sunlight and heat, as will Virkon also).
So the claim of purifying water maybe based in the fact that it can do its job but once broken down it maybe safe to drink, but it s unlikely to provide residual properties. Remember if it is capable of killing bacterial and fungal cells it is capable of killing animal cells - that's what makes them so effective.

So given both chlorine and Virkon will break down in heat and sunlight in a few days you would have to use it in two ways to get full coverage for a week.
A) put enough in and at such a level that you can sustain a level of protection for 7 days - this maybe toxic to your birds.
b) put a little in often at the manufactures rate - so if your going to do this then why not just use fresh water.

Someone on the forum suggested using an automatic watering system, why not invest in this if you have a real concern, the money you save from using Virkon will soon pay for it and you and your birds would be better off.

The internet is a wonderful place to get information but so too are some of the old school aviculturists that have tried, tested, failed and learnt and are prepared to share with you their trials and tribulations.

Anyway all the best and keep your questions coming.