Best Method to Breed Hybrids?

[TomDeGraaff]

Hello All,

What is the best method to breed zebra finch hybrids. I know nothing about them, but I see white ones called pinto finches I don't know the difference.

Thanks

With limited gene pool of Australian finches in the USA, I doubt if your "interest" will be appreciated by those trying to keep pure stocks of the other species. Hybridising is frowned upon everywhere except the songbird fancy which largely produce mules that don't breed on.

Your idea to do this no matter what indicates you are not being much of a team player and contributer to the group.

Please stop wasting our time with artificial fertilization and hybrids.

I for one can now ignore you, since I've said my piece

[Spitfire]

The breeding of Goldfinches to Canaries is not called Hybridisation but breeding Mules, as the offspring are infertile.
Hybrids are frowned upon in Australia as it creates what could be a Fertile bird.
Pairing a goldfinch to canary female is done at the time that the Goldfinch is in breeding condition, ie. when his beak is Silver condition., this usually happens at least later than the hen.
To Get a nest out of the Hen mate it to a Canary and place the Goldfinch in with it after she lays her clutch of eggs. Don't forget to take out the male canary.
Hopefully by the time that the young hatch, the Goldfinch
would think that the chicks are his and starts feeding the young. Next round you could be lucky and the Goldfinch does the business.

[finchbreeder]

Never heard of Pintos. Just to satisfy my curiosity what can you tell me about them. I concentrate on breeding colour mutations in the Zebs, this involves different coloured Zebs together. Eg Dilute to Black fronted.
LML

[GregH]

Let's not start a fight here. There are many types of hybrids. Certainly interspecific hybrids are undesirable when you can't maintain pure parental lines and there is a risk of contaminating the gene pools of both species. In reality if they do form fertile hybrids then maybe they aren't different species but variants within a "super-species" and in all probability ova cladistic analysis of thcasionally hybridises in the wild. Many rosellas in Australia a classic example the way they grade into one another and the species are really geographic variants. So how far removed is Carduelis cucullata (a red siskin) from a Serinus canaria (canary)? Measuring genetic homology can resolve this interesting question. Prior to DNA sequencing was used and prior to that was DNA hybridisation and prior to that was hybridisation. Now that we have the ability to sequence the genomes of these birds we can see that these genera are probably synthetic and not natural. Canaries and redpols come out pretty close in the analysis done by of Frigillids done by Arnaiz-Vellelia. The flow of genes from at the other end of the spectrum are infraspecific hybrids where you cross two inbred lines to take advantage of heterosis or hybrid vigour. There are plenty of purist zebra and Gouldian breeders that don't want their mutations mixed but breeders won't know dominance effects if they never cross them so to say that you shouldn't is not strictly true.

[TailFeathers]

Hello All,

What is the best method to breed zebra finch hybrids. I know nothing about them, but I see white ones called pinto finches I don't know the difference.

Thanks

With limited gene pool of Australian finches in the USA, I doubt if your "interest" will be appreciated by those trying to keep pure stocks of the other species. Hybridising is frowned upon everywhere except the songbird fancy which largely produce mules that don't breed on.

Your idea to do this no matter what indicates you are not being much of a team player and contributer to the group.

Please stop wasting our time with artificial fertilization and hybrids.

I for one can now ignore you, since I've said my piece

Yes dear leader. I shall obey your commands at all times.. Go with the flow as they say here.

Ahh... Ever wonder what open-mindedness meant or should I keep a narrow view when dealing here?

[TailFeathers]

The breeding of Goldfinches to Canaries is not called Hybridisation but breeding Mules, as the offspring are infertile.
Hybrids are frowned upon in Australia as it creates what could be a Fertile bird.
Pairing a goldfinch to canary female is done at the time that the Goldfinch is in breeding condition, ie. when his beak is Silver condition., this usually happens at least later than the hen.
To Get a nest out of the Hen mate it to a Canary and place the Goldfinch in with it after she lays her clutch of eggs. Don't forget to take out the male canary.
Hopefully by the time that the young hatch, the Goldfinch
would think that the chicks are his and starts feeding the young. Next round you could be lucky and the Goldfinch does the business.

Thank you

[TailFeathers]

Never heard of Pintos. Just to satisfy my curiosity what can you tell me about them. I concentrate on breeding colour mutations in the Zebs, this involves different coloured Zebs together. Eg Dilute to Black fronted.
LML

I'll try to get photos. As I've said not many people breed zebra finches I searched tri-state and those who had ads are now finished with all they had.

Pinto finches are slightly larger than zebra except their white.

[casehulsebosch]

"I have always found artificial insemination the easiest way to do it."

We are in need of a "like" button.( I already know where to find the Delete button)

cheers


case

[TailFeathers]

I have always found artificial insemination the easiest way to do it.

Nice.

I don't think he is being fair dinkem Tiaris just a dig. Craig

Pls explain how the phrase "fair dinkum" is used. I'm not understanding this phrase entirely.

[Tiaris]

Let's not start a fight here. There are many types of hybrids. Certainly interspecific hybrids are undesirable when you can't maintain pure parental lines and there is a risk of contaminating the gene pools of both species. In reality if they do form fertile hybrids then maybe they aren't different species but variants within a "super-species" and in all probability ova cladistic analysis of thcasionally hybridises in the wild. Many rosellas in Australia a classic example the way they grade into one another and the species are really geographic variants. So how far removed is Carduelis cucullata (a red siskin) from a Serinus canaria (canary)? Measuring genetic homology can resolve this interesting question. Prior to DNA sequencing was used and prior to that was DNA hybridisation and prior to that was hybridisation. Now that we have the ability to sequence the genomes of these birds we can see that these genera are probably synthetic and not natural. Canaries and redpols come out pretty close in the analysis done by of Frigillids done by Arnaiz-Vellelia. The flow of genes from at the other end of the spectrum are infraspecific hybrids where you cross two inbred lines to take advantage of heterosis or hybrid vigour. There are plenty of purist zebra and Gouldian breeders that don't want their mutations mixed but breeders won't know dominance effects if they never cross them so to say that you shouldn't is not strictly true.

To try to justify deliberate hybridising of limited captive gene pools of natural species by saying that is evidence of close genetic relationship is a moot point. Very obviously, only those species with a close genetic relationship will readily hybridise. Red Siskins may have been originally used to produce red factor canaries and may indeed have a close genetic relationship to canaries but they are also a CITES category 1 species (most highly endangered category). This is primarily as a result of exploitation of wild stocks (trapping) to satisfy aviculture's demand for them. If at least some of the hybrids within the serinus/carduelis (fringillid) group were not fertile, the red factor canary would not exist as there would have been no progress beyond the F1 stage. Red-factor canaries already exist and are commonly available in captivity so why is there any need to continue to cross Siskins with canaries. I very regularly get enquiries from people wanting to buy Red Siskins to cross with canaries and I never sell to them. Using rare species to deliberately produce hybrid freaks is a futile waste of pure genetic stock whose useful breeding life needs to be used to continue its own species in captivity if we are to have a future with them at all.
The outcrossing of mutation birds to normal phenotype specimens of the same species to ascertain the mode of inheritance of a new mutation is not hybridising between species is a totally separate issue & cannot reasonably be used as justification for deliberately hybridising between species.
Individual breeders can clearly do whatever they choose to do with their own birds, but we all need to be mindful of the consequences of our decisions on the relative strength of the captive gene pools of the species we breed. At the end of the day hopefully most finch breeders can have a clear conscience they have responsibly done their bit for the finch breeders of the future. There is a place for scruples in aviculture and that involves doing the right thing by the birds we have just as much as doing the right thing by people.