Breeding Gouldians, cages vs avairy

[STUART WHITING]

I also agree with the majority, aviary breeding is the way to go. I tried setting up two pairs in cabinets 75x45x45 with zero luck this year. One pair wont go to nest, the other lays and abandons eggs. I think the depth needs to be looked at, 45cm may not be very secure for them.

Cheers Donkey, yea I'm beginning to see a continues pattern where most seem to prefer the avairy collany system and not just in Aussie but around the world as a whole from what I've found,

Letting the birds pick their own partners and generally having more space and privacy is probably the way to go

Although saying that breeding em in small flights in single pairs as Tiaris does also seems to be beneficial, I suppose it's horses for courses as they say

Be lucky

[casehulsebosch]

Here some feedback from a cabinet breeder.

I grew up in Holland where there is lots of cage/cabinet breeding due to a lack of room and not everybody is lucky enough to have a garden.Some of the members in our club had set aside a spare bedroom for their hobby.

I bred longtails and gouldians in cabinets in the 60's at a time when these species were still hard to breed and people were still trying to find their feet with lots of bird species.
Now almost fifty years later we know so much more. Conditions, food and knowledge have improved and we see all sort of bird species being bred in cages from Lavender waxbills, to Cordons, Fires, Grenadiers you name it.

I set up a birdroom here in New Zealand based on what I had back in Holland and adjusted to modern day techniques.
That included controlled temperatures as i did not want egg binding. High frequency lighting so the birds would not feel they were at a disco and adjusting the light hours to help bring them into breeding conditions, as well as a host of other things.

I found breeding of Gouldians in cabinets to be a breeze and less than challenging.I stopped breeding because of my frequent Ozzy outback adventures and it just was not sustainable to travel for long periods of time and keep birds.

I have taken part in the Save the Gouldian Fund Gouldian count on several occasions and found the birds in the wild to be nothing like the birds I saw at the world show in 2015. To me the perfect bird is the specimen you see in the wild.

Why one would want to breed a white Gouldian I will never know.

Seeing birds in an aviary is so much more natural and easier on the eye, but for results I would go back to my cabinets.

cheers, case

[Tiaris]

I also agree with the majority, aviary breeding is the way to go. I tried setting up two pairs in cabinets 75x45x45 with zero luck this year. One pair wont go to nest, the other lays and abandons eggs. I think the depth needs to be looked at, 45cm may not be very secure for them.

Cheers Donkey, yea I'm beginning to see a continues pattern where most seem to prefer the avairy collany system and not just in Aussie but around the world as a whole from what I've found,

Letting the birds pick their own partners and generally having more space and privacy is probably the way to go

Be lucky

Letting the birds to pick their own partners is far more important to striking a really successful breeding pair (with all species I reckon) than we often give credit for. The importance of this is just as important to both colony breeders and single pair breeders. I feel this is why in many colonies one or two pairs breed most of the young for that aviary. Much has been made over the years of the "dominant" pair(s) being the most productive in that situation, but perhaps in many of those cases its just the truly compatible self-selected pairs which are the most productive, not necessarily those which compete the hardest in the group to achieve regular breeding success. As a predominantly single pair per aviary breeder myself, I have many times had a particular bird (or birds) which I really wanted to see exactly which features they would produce in their offspring and would draw a total blank with the mate which I had arbitrarily selected for them. A prime example of this is a hen yellow-headed Gouldian I am breeding from this season. She was bred 3 years ago and was a sufficiently impressive physical specimen after her first moult for me to retain her as a prospective breeder. I really wanted to see that she could replicate some of her desirable features in at least some of her progeny. For the past 2 seasons I had her share an aviary with 2 different male birds whose best features I felt matched ideally with hers. Not once during the past 2 breeding seasons did I notice her show even the slightest bit of interest in the boys I had picked out for her. At the start of this season I didn't even "waste" an aviary and mate on her by giving her another proper chance, but I was still sufficiently impressed by her physical quality to keep her as one of a few spare hens which I usually take into a breeding season. I also kept one spare male going into the season (a very nice YH) & after all my single pairs went to nest and brought out young for round one, I decided that I may as well pair him to one of the spare hens for a late start rather than have another pair of good quality birds sitting idle in the holding aviaries. I thought I'd put him with the above YH hen first & watch them for signs of compatibility for a couple of days, but given her recent history I wouldn't hesitate to swap her for another spare hen if she looked like drawing blank again. When I released them into the aviary together it was instantly the most obvious case of getting straight into it you could hope for - both into the full courtship ritual, song, dance, tail twitching, head shakes, etc starting within 2 seconds of hitting the perch. Straight to nest, 4 fertile eggs, all hatched, fed very well & fledged just last week. Very obvious total compatibility with an instant result.

[STUART WHITING]

Here some feedback from a cabinet breeder.

I grew up in Holland where there is lots of cage/cabinet breeding due to a lack of room and not everybody is lucky enough to have a garden.Some of the members in our club had set aside a spare bedroom for their hobby.

I bred longtails and gouldians in cabinets in the 60's at a time when these species were still hard to breed and people were still trying to find their feet with lots of bird species.
Now almost fifty years later we know so much more. Conditions, food and knowledge have improved and we see all sort of bird species being bred in cages from Lavender waxbills, to Cordons, Fires, Grenadiers you name it.

I set up a birdroom here in New Zealand based on what I had back in Holland and adjusted to modern day techniques.
That included controlled temperatures as i did not want egg binding. High frequency lighting so the birds would not feel they were at a disco and adjusting the light hours to help bring them into breeding conditions, as well as a host of other things.

I found breeding of Gouldians in cabinets to be a breeze and less than challenging.I stopped breeding because of my frequent Ozzy outback adventures and it just was not sustainable to travel for long periods of time and keep birds.

I have taken part in the Save the Gouldian Fund Gouldian count on several occasions and found the birds in the wild to be nothing like the birds I saw at the world show in 2015. To me the perfect bird is the specimen you see in the wild.

Why one would want to breed a white Gouldian I will never know.

Seeing birds in an aviary is so much more natural and easier on the eye, but for results I would go back to my cabinets.

cheers, case

Mmmm.........some interesting info there case, definitely food for thought,

It's funny really because when breeding other birds IE zebras here in England we wouldn't really dream of breeding all in flights and letting the birds pick themselves, this certainly wouldn't breed the ideal pair of exhibition birds, not unless someone perhaps bred in mass production

You mentioned waxbills and again I fully understand that although these birds can certainly be bred in cages and over the years have come a long way with the understanding of the species I personally feel that these group of Estrildids are far more better off in being bred in flights / avaires

Also as you rightly mention I think that it all boils down to how many birds one wants to keep and probably more important how much space one has at their property

Thanks for sharing

[STUART WHITING]

I also agree with the majority, aviary breeding is the way to go. I tried setting up two pairs in cabinets 75x45x45 with zero luck this year. One pair wont go to nest, the other lays and abandons eggs. I think the depth needs to be looked at, 45cm may not be very secure for them.

Cheers Donkey, yea I'm beginning to see a continues pattern where most seem to prefer the avairy collany system and not just in Aussie but around the world as a whole from what I've found,

Letting the birds pick their own partners and generally having more space and privacy is probably the way to go

Be lucky

Letting the birds to pick their own partners is far more important to striking a really successful breeding pair (with all species I reckon) than we often give credit for. The importance of this is just as important to both colony breeders and single pair breeders. I feel this is why in many colonies one or two pairs breed most of the young for that aviary. Much has been made over the years of the "dominant" pair(s) being the most productive in that situation, but perhaps in many of those cases its just the truly compatible self-selected pairs which are the most productive, not necessarily those which compete the hardest in the group to achieve regular breeding success. As a predominantly single pair per aviary breeder myself, I have many times had a particular bird (or birds) which I really wanted to see exactly which features they would produce in their offspring and would draw a total blank with the mate which I had arbitrarily selected for them. A prime example of this is a hen yellow-headed Gouldian I am breeding from this season. She was bred 3 years ago and was a sufficiently impressive physical specimen after her first moult for me to retain her as a prospective breeder. I really wanted to see that she could replicate some of her desirable features in at least some of her progeny. For the past 2 seasons I had her share an aviary with 2 different male birds whose best features I felt matched ideally with hers. Not once during the past 2 breeding seasons did I notice her show even the slightest bit of interest in the boys I had picked out for her. At the start of this season I didn't even "waste" an aviary and mate on her by giving her another proper chance, but I was still sufficiently impressed by her physical quality to keep her as one of a few spare hens which I usually take into a breeding season. I also kept one spare male going into the season (a very nice YH) & after all my single pairs went to nest and brought out young for round one, I decided that I may as well pair him to one of the spare hens for a late start rather than have another pair of good quality birds sitting idle in the holding aviaries. I thought I'd put him with the above YH hen first & watch them for signs of compatibility for a couple of days, but given her recent history I wouldn't hesitate to swap her for another spare hen if she looked like drawing blank again. When I released them into the aviary together it was instantly the most obvious case of getting straight into it you could hope for - both into the full courtship ritual, song, dance, tail twitching, head shakes, etc starting within 2 seconds of hitting the perch. Straight to nest, 4 fertile eggs, all hatched, fed very well & fledged just last week. Very obvious total compatibility with an instant result.

Wow what a story Tiaris, very informative mate

Just goes to show that no mater what yer do in trying to pair certain birds together if there not compatible they simply won't breed and yet you've just now proved that by finding the right partner for the hen and she was instantly satisfied

Thanks for sharing

[finchbreeder]

Like T I try to put a couple of choices of mate for the lady. Usually successfully, but occassionally not. We women know what we like after all.
LML

[STUART WHITING]

Like T I try to put a couple of choices of mate for the lady. Usually successfully, but occassionally not. We women know what we like after all.
LML

Absolutely, quite agree

[casehulsebosch]

Interesting scientific study by Sarah Pryke Phd of the Save the Gouldian Fund fame on Gouldians in the wild picking their partners.

cheers, case

[STUART WHITING]

Interesting scientific study by Sarah Pryke Phd of the Save the Gouldian Fund fame on Gouldians in the wild picking their partners.

cheers, case

Yep

[shnapper20]

Stuart i have double breeding cages in my garage when I first started with my gouldians I bred them in there. I found I had better control over who bred with who. and my breeding results appeared better. I only let them have one round and than released them to my aviaries hoping they would stay bonded for the rest of the breeding season. I did find the cages were a lot more work compared to aviaries in regard to cleaning water food etc. I now use them mainly for quarantining new birds, however I may use them for breeding down the track as it certainly takes the guess work out of who bred with who.