maggots...

[Danny]

Never tried freezing pupae.Can they be thawed out and reactivated? Could be handy when i go away and the fly box goes to custard.

They can be thawed and are ok to eat as pupae for 48 hours after but they won't reactivate.

[Trilobite]

Agree with what has been posted, I have had many batches of maggots go to pupa too quickly and have fed these to the birds, vary rarley are any left after a day or so. If i have too many an they are not eaten they are left to hatch in the avairy and the likes of the cordons, jacs and crimsons pick of the freshely hatched flies. Nothing goes to waste so like all things variety is the key.

[west finch]

I was watching dirty jobs with Mike Row on Discovery channel and he was working on a farm that breed maggots for fishing . When they walked into the room were the maggots are grown out. Mike commented that there was an over whelming stench of ammonia .The owner said that ammonia had the effect of killing any bacteria that was present in the growing medium . I have have never heard of this before . So maggot’s would have to be a fairly sterile and there for a safer form of live food than i first thought . It is written by Russel Kingston that one of his main concerns when feeding maggots is yeast infections, is this also killed by the ammonia ?

[Danny]

I was watching dirty jobs with Mike Row on Discovery channel and he was working on a farm that breed maggots for fishing . When they walked into the room were the maggots are grown out. Mike commented that there was an over whelming stench of ammonia .The owner said that ammonia had the effect of killing any bacteria that was present in the growing medium . I have have never heard of this before . So maggot’s would have to be a fairly sterile and there for a safer form of live food than i first thought . It is written by Russel Kingston that one of his main concerns when feeding maggots is yeast infections, is this also killed by the ammonia ?

Russell comments come from a rather questionable article that was published that suggested this. In reality the problem was not the maggots but the filthy disgusting feed tray that they were placed in afterwards (I treated this persons birds many times and he never learnt - funnily he stopped feeding maggots, bred very few babies and killed just as many adults from yeast infection). Well prepared maggots are as safe as any other live food.

[Diane]

From what I have read ammonia is a component of many household cleaners.

Ammonia is NH3 a small molecule made of one nitrogen atom linked to 3 hydrogen atoms.

It kills bacteria by raising the PH to highly alkaline levels where bacteria can't survive. When dissolved in water it removes (captures) protons and becomes NH4+, something that of course reduces their concentration and raises the PH.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5318882_ammon ... germs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jusdeb]

Saw the Dirty Jobs episode on Maggots also and they did say it was normal and helped with bacterial growth however I wonder if it would have been the same had the maggots been for live food rather than catching a fish which is going to die well before any bad effects from the ammonia happen?

Love Mike Rowe by the way ...

[GregH]

I'll be flying by the seat of my pants here but I would have thought that the evolution of ammonia comes as result of bacterial decomposition of proteins in the food substrate of the fly culture. Protein content is the usual measure of food quality but it's not something that can be sensed remotely as proteins are too large to be volitile unlike ammonia which can be smelled out. Even in fruit flies the attraction of a food substrate is dependantion on the concentrationof ammonia which varies with the pH of the solution. Ammonia however is toxic to animals, so with flies if ammonia levels exceed their tolerance; it becomes a repellant and this also was shown in the paper referenced.

[Gerry Marantelli]

Hey Danny - if you want maggots we can send them to you with your other insects - we don't advertise them in the ARCade but we obviously have them to grow the pupae. If you think there is a demand for them maybe we can add them to the website.

Also to everyone else - maggots are as clean as the supplier. Dirty growing conditions = dirty maggots (I don’t think the producers would have decided to film dirty jobs in our fly room!). This can often be the case if you grow your own from wild caught - i.e. rotting meat or faeces in a bucket etc. as i have seen suggested on many forums. It also depends on the species, what they are fed and the density that they are grown at - all of this can affect nutritional value too. The ammonia smell mentioned is most often associated with carrion fly species grown on meat. Housefly generally smell of bread dough and sometimes a little of fermented wheat or beer. It may also be the species of fly and the food you raise it on that alters the bird’s desire to eat it (as discussed in this thread). Danny – i wonder if it may be that since our pupae are more nutritious than mealworms that some of your birds have decided they only want pupae.

I don't know finches but I would think housefly would be the best size wise, and nutritionally the most easily modified during growing. If you know what you are aiming for in your food you can develop a diet for your feeders that aids in reaching desired levels of nutrients. Commercially grown pupae and maggots are very cheap around $40 per kg and usually if you consider the time it takes and the number of issues with grow your own, it usually works out cheaper to buy. As Danny said pupae can be frozen so you can easily get bulk and freeze.

[Danny]

Hi Gerry, Welcome. The pupae consumption with my birds is still quite odd. Virtually every cage is eating them now but some will only eat them once the mealworms are gone. How would the price compare for maggots vs pupae (email me if you prefer [email protected] ) per kg??
I have tried the larger pupae and the house flies are certainly preferred. What are the species of flies on the larger two pupae. The big ones are the size of orange breasts. I think the pupae are a bit firm for finches but they would be ideal as flies for larger softbills, particularly in an aviary with 6 mm wire as I doubt they can get through it so would be trapped inside. Worth a try for your Bee eaters Jeff !!!!
Danny

[Tintola]

Hi Gerry, Welcome. The pupae consumption with my birds is still quite odd. Virtually every cage is eating them now but some will only eat them once the mealworms are gone. How would the price compare for maggots vs pupae (email me if you prefer [email protected] ) per kg??
I have tried the larger pupae and the house flies are certainly preferred. What are the species of flies on the larger two pupae. The big ones are the size of orange breasts. I think the pupae are a bit firm for finches but they would be ideal as flies for larger softbills, particularly in an aviary with 6 mm wire as I doubt they can get through it so would be trapped inside. Worth a try for your Bee eaters Jeff !!!!
Danny

I don't have Bee eaters, Danny, I have cricket and mealworm eaters. Bees buzz and possibly sting so "we" don't eat them. The "BEE" eaters are scared of them! Have tried the large fly pupae already, not enough hatch, maybe 20%, they would eat them, but was not worth while economically.