Where does it all end?

[maz]

Maz Thanks for posting that link, it was fantastic and is exactly what I was trying to say regarding extreme bird mutations.

I'm not Mutation Bashing, but when it starts to go pear shaped, STOP.

The problem is that we need to stop long before pear shaped, these sorts of changes in conformation are achieved over a number of generations of incremental changes not just in one huge mutation, therefore they go unnoticed until we look at the then and now photos, what we need to do is look at what we are selecting for very carefully and extrapolate to what might be the end result....I wouldn't be surprised if even in many of the finch species the birds are already starting to deviate in minor ways from the wild species just through selection for the "largest, healthiest" individuals....is size really an indicator of health?....how do you think the show type budgies started?

[djb78]

Sorry tintola never implied that you were, I do have to agree with you when that it does go pear shaped STOP.

[Tintola]

Sorry tintola never implied that you were,.

I never thought thought that you did. I was just making sure that I wasn't being perceived as a mutation basher.

[desertbirds]

Can of worms seems to be middle name at the moment Recently been in enough strife , but what the heck. If we put as much effort into looking after what we do have , we would be one of the worlds true leading countries in conservation. The biggest Nature Park in the world. Instead we do the same old poo as everybody else.Not a mutation basher either by the way.

[Niki_K]

I wouldn't be surprised if even in many of the finch species the birds are already starting to deviate in minor ways from the wild species just through selection for the "largest, healthiest" individuals....

I've noticed behavioural differences between my colony of wild zebbies and the domestics (wild ones want nothing to do with you, domestics more likely to hang around. Wild ones also seem to startle more than domestics with me moving in and out of the aviary. Domestics are also easier to breed in cages). Obviously, colour and size changes as well. My wild zebs are generally around 11g (range 9.5g-12g though I did have one massive 16g female), while the domestics I have are about 13g (range 12g-14.5g).

[finchbreeder]

"selection for the "largest, healthiest" individuals...."
Isn't that how domestic budgies got to be so much bigger than wild ones? Maybe we should forget about the largest, and just go for the healthiest.
LML

[Dimar]

Hi all,
as regards the original post of Tintola, sorry perhaps I'm a little bit off topic, but I would like to clear up few things about blind zebras, because I don't want someone to believe that there are zebra breeders around who prefere to bred bubble-eyed zebras instead of normal zebras. Cheek mutation was discovered in Belgium in 1967 and is actually bred everywhere in the world except Australia, where it is not present. Since the beginning it was noticed that about half of the mutant offsprings had defective eyes (sometimes one eye only, sometimes both), the other half was perfectly normal and healthy. Should the discoverer have left the mutation extinguish itself in his cages? I don't know, but he didn't and decided to keep on breeding with the healthy offsprings. Thanks to the work of many breeders over the years, today there are Cheeks who produce very few defective offsprings. There are still birds who produce more blind chicks, but it's a minor part, and there must act the selection of the serious breeder: stop breeding those birds and never sell them! Unlike some sad varieties of canary, that are bred to increse and enhance deformity, Cheek zebras are bred with the aim of eradicate the defect and obtain healthy zebras. So, how this will end up? I don't know again, but I hope that one day, thanks to the breeders who didn't gave up and kept on selecting seriously, there will be only good Cheeks producing good Cheeks.

ciao
Dimar

[Tintola]

Thank you Dimar, That is what most us us want to hear. Very interesting and a responsible way to go about our hobby.

[E Orix]

I am sorry but I can't and will not accept that ANY form of breeding that has a reasonable possibility of throwing a deformed young has any place
what so ever in any hobby. Especially in our hobby,there are so many in our hobby her and overseas that just don't give a dam about
what happens once the problem has left their place.
I have been in this hobby many many years and I still get annoyed at listening to people spout off how good their Budgies are.
People actually imported those English THINGS,big boof headed,loose feathered items nothing like what they are called after, many can't fly.
Then you move into the Canaries some types are taking the same path as the Budgies.You will often hear people say pull some feathers away from the vent so the male birds can copulate,isn't that great. And these people call themselves experts.
If it is a normal specimen or a mutation breed for quality and base the type on the normal bird.
If anyone wants to take me on fine but do it via a pm then it will not fill the site up.

[jusdeb]

Yep ... gotta know when to draw the line me thinks .

The first Canary that needed its vent clipped should have been the last same as boof headed budgies and blisters over eye balls and any other funky abnormaltiy.......wake up hey ! thats mother nature telling you youve gone too far .