White Eared Mask finches fluffed up

[iaos]

http://www.birdkeeper.com.au/abk-bird-b ... =6&Items=5

Danny's book

[E Orix]

I do not have to be so diplomatic as myzo.I have serious doubts about the vets knowledge on avian husbandry.
There is absolutely no sense in depriving your birds of water,especially if it is hot.If the tests are inconclusive why medicate,
is it just incase or what.
I go back to my first comment,I still say in my laymans opinion it was most likely stress and all that was needed was easy access
to water,seed and left alone.
At times there is nothing else you can do.
Many many years ago when wild trapped birds were brought into the state we had trouble with Longtails(Black Hearts)
There would be many in a holding cage,if you decided to move them even to the next cage there was a very good posibility
that some would drop dead.Why, stress. No antibiotics or wonder drug was needed.
With birds being freighted long distances the risk is high especially if not boxed properly.
Sorry Myzo that is why I do not generalise and suggest vets as there are so few that know much about Avian problems.
I think we are lucky having access to you and Danny.

[Myzomela]

You are absolutely correct E Orix that stress is the major trigger, and that unstressed birds can cope with a variety of diseases- just as in other animals and people.

The problem is that once the stress has occurred, the nasties have already started multiplying in the bird and been shed into the bird's environment.

As well as trying to decrease the stress on the bird as you have suggested, I also look at it from the point of view of trying to stop these nasties multiplying and causing illness not only in the sick bird but also in the rest of the collection. Inappropriate medication, I agree, is just an additional stress. The correct medication, on the other hand, will speed up recovery & minimise losses.

Like you I believe that bird management is the number one way of minimising disease affecting your birds. However, there are times when management alone is not enough and this is where good diagnostics and appropriate medication have their place. From a collection point of view, good management means buying healthy birds, then feeding & housing them properly, and keeping new birds separated from the rest of the collection until you are happy they are healthy ie quarantine- which you've heard me say before ad nauseum. I also believe there is a place for culling of stock. In nature, the weak die and are removed from the gene pool. In aviaries, we try to save every last chick, for better or for worse. Maybe we need to rethink this a little.

I would love to be out of work as an avian vet because there just weren't enough sick birds to treat, but realistically this is never going to occur.
I agree that there aren't enough vets who know about birds. Half the battle is finding one actually interested in the first place, then encouraging them to increase their bird skills. The problem from their point of view is that they don't see enough birds on a regular basis to develop their skills. There is also usually pressure from the practice managers because birds don't generate enough income when compared to dogs and cats. The overheads of running a vet practice are huge, more than most people realise, especially the equipment. So it is usually those who have a genuine interest in birds and bird medicine who stay in it long term. And from the average birdkeeper's point of view, the cost of veterinary medicine can seem expensive. However, for breeders I believe that snesible use of vets for screening flocks for disease through periodic faecal checks and post mortems can be extremely valuable and help in overall management and breeding success. However, without good management, no amount of veterinary input is going to be of help.

[CrimsonChris]

Thanks guys, i agree with all said about accurate housing and in saying i did exactly whats been mentioned. i held the birds in a holding cage for the 1st week. This alone stressed the poor little buggers out. they were like wild mice zipping around the cage. even i got stressed at the frantic activity.
When i put them out into the hot humid weather torential rain occured for days on end, the floor or the aviaty was never dry during this as it was driving in on all sides. Cocidiosis would be my enemy in the current climate.

my opinion of vets in cairns was confirmed at the first phone call. google avian vets in cairns and when you ring, the fist line is " no we dont have an avian vet here, we have a senior vet who is 'good' at birds. you take the birds in and he asks the question. Now what bird do we have here!!!. Need i say more.

I had many great successes as an adolecent while breeding birds, parrots and finches. I worked in a retail aviary for years,selling all sorts of birds in the south of Sydney, it was my very 1st job. i learnt to spot a sick bird and i know one i see one. I am of the opinion if you beleive it is sick, do something. At least give it a go.

I chose not to medicate last night when i arrived home. I'd let them settle back in, they were re-released at 2pm i got home at 5.30.This morning there was 1 fluffed up on the perch with its head back. Another asleep on the floor. Thats not a good sign, but thet did wake up on approach and after a minute observation they headed straight for the termite bowl looking for a feed.

I decided i'd give them the feed they were looking for. A quick protein hit, then remove them from the aviary. When caught they are a bit thin on the chest, but not drastically. they are back in the holding cage and i hate say it but on the medication. The medication is doxcycycline hydroclauride. I will not be removing it from them during the day, i think that is so silly. They are in a quiet warm space and all i can do i guess is cross the fingers. They are supposed to be medicated for 7 days. I will give it 48 hours and judge from there.

heres hoping!!

[SamDavis]

Chris I reckon you're doing an excellent job - well it's pretty much what I'd have done and be doing at least!

I'm certainly no expert but isn't doxycycline the drug usually prescribed to treat psittacosis? And if psittacosis is the suspected disease then I think an extended course of doxycycline for a month or more may be in order. But this is just my recollection and may well be totally wrong.

[Fincho162]

Living where I do air freight and stress go hand in hand here!!!

I agree that medicating birds when u first get them is a logical no-no BUT we always give them a helping hand when they arrive or for a week before we even send them back the other way.

Over time we've opted for using nothing more than Troy's Vita-B and Glucodin ( or simple sugar) for around a week before even contemplating dosing with anything.......not really "medicine" as such.........
Found this out moving Diamies & Painteds - they stress if u move them more so than many others - and this is manifest by the fluid part of their droppings being enormous by comparison to a "normal" finches dropping. It pools out of their pooh and is very evident and , if untreated, can be fatal. Since "developing" our treatment we've not had problems replacing these electrolytes. .........so far anyway..............

My mate had White-ears and 'stressed' to me that they were "stress-cadets" at the best of time and did not handle being moved well at all.

Depending upon when u get them - if at night we keep them on full lighting with no interference (left free from prying eyes) until morning which gives them time to settle in - and warmth which may not be an issue for you up there so much.

Add to that I believe that Masks are one of a few finches to actually show infestation by a tapeworm that doesn't have an intermediate host......

Probably doesn't help at this stage but maybe down the track..............

[CrimsonChris]

I remeber a product i use to use on nervous birds upon aquiring them for about 3-4 days, and never had a problem with illness and stress. Species like Crimson wings, Red caps and 28's etc that are all flighty and probably all trapped back then, i'd simply smear it over some red apple and if it was bit cold for extended periods in July id give it tthe finches too, just a little in the water.

OXY B. It was brilliant. Vitamin b hit that worked wonders.

I cant seem to track it down now nor anything similar.

[Fincho162]

Try Troy Vita-B....................Vita-B = vitamin B.

[Myzomela]

OxyB was just oxytetracycline hydrochloride. The equivalent product today is OxymavB which is an S5 drug ie you should be able toget it over the counter from some pet shops or stock agents.

The reason it worked so well with the parrots you mentioned because these species are notorious for coming down with psittacosis when stressed, and oxytetracycline used to be one of the main drugs used to treat this disease.

I wouldn't assume that your finches have the same disease. However, oxytetracycline has been largely replaced by doxycycline-the drug you have been prescribed- because it is more stable, less affected by calcium and has a broader spectrum of bacteria that it will kill. I wouldn't stop using it after 48 hrs if the birds aren't better- you may need to give it more time.

Good luck and let us know how you go.

[BluJay]

@EOrix & Myzomela, just love your postings! I hope this person gets their critters well.