Aussie Finch Forum

If you buy Gouldians at over 75% coloured they usually all survive if you want uncoloured young birds.Under that they you have more of a risk of death.

I agree totally with buying young uncoloured or partially coloured birds (and discounting older birds). Unfortunately reality seems to contradict this common sense and logical approach. In my experience partially coloured birds are harder to sell at bird sales and dealers don't want them either. Most people prefer fully coloured and many people expect a discount for partially coloured birds. Hopefully this thread will help educate!

Sam
I hope you are right.

Guys, I'm sure you are right.
You are fulfilling the role that bird clubs used to- wise advice based on success over time to the young and uninitiated.
Well done.
Long may it continue!

Good bird clubs still perform this role but this forum has a much wider and more immediate advice pool! It's very useful
My comment about Gouldians was to explore a potential exceotion to the "uncoloured rule" but I see that there are none. I too buy uncoloured birds. I prefer not to buy moulting birds though.

I only buy birds from breeders whose birds and integrity I like & trust. I like to be fussy with the person as much as the birds to know when they say a coloured bird is young or unrelated to another, you can bank on it to be true.
I like to fully colour up my young before I dispose of them simply to ensure I make the most of selection decisions for breeding stock for myself.
I have always stood by the rule that Gouldians should never be bought or sold uncoloured. The best way to do this is only buy Gouldians in December or January when there is a huge choice of freshly coloured young birds in their prime. Outside this period arouses doubts. Ideally place an order early in the breeding season, be patient and try to get the pick of the available crop from the whole season's young from the breeder supplying them.

Tiaris I understand what you are getting at but unlike you many people do not have the access and contacts you have.
Also its your decision to keep birds back until they are fully coloured but if I do not know you I have to take your word for the age of the birds and
sadly there are many in our hobby that bend the truth.
Their choices are possibly
Club adds
Adds in the paper
Pet shops or dealers
and bird sales
I guess buyer beware is the best option

I agree orix, & we've all probably been stung a few times in getting to the stage where we become more patient & fussy in buying birds.
I actually prefer to get Nuns or Yellow-rumps as uncoloured or part-coloured young as its sometimes unreasonable to expect the seller to hold them until coloured given the time involved but again only from those I trust to not be offloading possible hybrids. Ideally with Munias I'd go for 4 to 6 young birds each off a couple of different breeders, wait for them to colour up, make up a few unrelated pairs & sell the balance off.

Hi Tiaris & E Orix,

I agree with the sentiment both of you are putting across. I will only buy Gouldians from people I know and can trust. But for those who do not have many contacts they may be limited to uncolored birds in preference to colored old birds, so long as they are not heavily into their moult.

The Victorian bird sales is an illustration of my point. Why would you buy an adult Gouldian in May (Mornington), July (Melbourne) or August (Ballarat) when you know this bird will not be breeding for you until next season. Logic says the uncolored bird will be ready to breed by the next season, so why take the risk with a potentially old and infertile bird.

Tiaris you point about buying Gouldians in December/January has some problems. Once the bird is put through the appropriate quarantine program it will not be ready for release until March or even April. Here in Melbourne that would normally mean that the bird will miss the current breeding season. So it is for this reason I personally only introduce new birds into my flock no later than November or buy from breeders who have a similar worming and husbandry approach to mine.

Again...just my thoughts.

Cheers
Paul

Very interesting topic!

Why not have a state or national system that provides breeders withthe possibility to officially ring their birds with a closed aluminum ring with year (a specific colour), breeders number and bird number engraved on it? This is how it is done in Belgium and The Netherlands. It doesn't even have to be compulsory, just as long as the rings are provided by an official club or organisation. This way all breeders who want to use them can only order a specific year ring each year again. I mean: you would of course not be able in 2013 to buy rings from 2012. Sorry for always referring to how it is done where I come from, but that is the only thing I can do and I think it might be interesting to know how it is done elsewhere. It is a system I'm am used too. I am going to have rings like that sent to Australia for myself from my club in Belgium. If anyone would be interested, I could try and find out to introduce this in Australia too. But it should actually be organised and sold by for instance - in my case - the QFS.

It is very interesting to read all the opinions. And the questions actually was "Why not buy or sell birds that haven't fully moulted?"

Here it is more or less not done to sell birds that haven't fully moulted. The reasons have already been mentioned. The strongest argument as far as selling is concerned for me is (talking gouldians):

Tiaris wrote: I like to fully colour up my young before I dispose of them simply to ensure I make the most of selection decisions for breeding stock for myself.

As far as buying is concerned...
I would never have done it here, even though the birds are rung. I think the most important reason for not buying birds that haven't fully moulted here in Europe is that most breeders breed their birds to a set standard and this involves a lot of specific features of the feathers to be taken into account. If you buy uncoulered birds you might end up buying birds with features you don't want to introduce into yours tock. And since the head is a very important part of the bird in that respect it is even more of a problem, since the head will generally be the final part of the bird to colour up. Also, young birds (might be less of a concern for the 75% coloured up) are also growing and developing their muscles during the moult, so size can still change considerably - as I have experienced and I am sure others will have too.

I am still not convinced of buying unmoulted birds. Of course no-one wants to buy infertile old birds, but I think there are enough parameters mentioned in this topic, signs that tell of the age of the bird that will make it possible to sell or buy only moulted birds, even without having to ring your bird. Although I really think ringing birds as I described above would help a lot.