Aussie Finch Forum

Tiaris wrote:I don't know that the above quote was necessarily referring to mutations.
The notion of a standard is to ask the question: exactly what aspects of the wild birds' features are ideal?
There is much natural variation in every physical feature of the normal Gouldian (& all other species)... A standard need not include any features or proportions which are in any way unnatural.

I totally agree Tiaris.

Then why is it that every "standard" for domesticated bird species seems to encourage the breeding of birds that are exactly that ie have features and proportions which are anything but natural?
Why when I ask this am I met with stoney silence?

In forming a standard of any bird, I recomend that all size, shape should be wildtype.

Normals should use the wildtype description or a clearly defined variation found in nature vis pure yellow belly on scarlet-chested paeakeets when we know there can be some orange tinge at times.

Mutant colours can be decided by panels but not size and shape and stance.

My concern with show birds is that, being a competition, when some people attain the perfect standard regularly, the judging powers choose to move the goalposts and stray away from the true ideal. That is the danger to me.

I have just bought some pure wildtype Goulds (and I didn't pay $20 for them ) when they arrive and settle I will post some pics

While people are arguing about what should be what under this topic most if not all are preparing for their gouldian breeding season.Most if not all are preparing to breed what they intend to get out of their gouldians,wether mutations or normals and they don't or will not have people tell them how to do it or what shape,colour,standard,size that their birds should be or that their birds are crap and no one will buy them.This starts infighting and to the extent of best mates hateing each other and competitions and thefts.
Just let people in this hobby do what they like best and thats keep and breed these beautiful birds and enjoy them and not have others tell them that their birds are not up to a so called standard by bird polititions.
The person who started this topic,IMO has a big chip on his shoulder and must realise that gouldian clubs,standards are set in other countries because what they have is what they have got and they can't get any fresh blood so they have to breed to a standard because most are bred in cabinets and controlled
.Here in Australia,most of our gouldians are bred in large outdoor aviaries,in a colony system with or with out any control,why because we can.
Anyhow,lets get back to what this forum is all about and that's enjoying breeding finches to our own satisfaction and to helping others with our knowledge and experience.I'm getting off now and ducking the bullets. HNY Craig

Well spoken Craig,I agree with your comments entirely.the gouldians have come along way in the last decade .
Due to our fantastic gene pool ,and good breeding techs used by the majority of gouldian breeders.
Mutations have certainly improved in size ,fertility ,and vigour .As can be seen with the increase in mutations being
Offered for sale each year.
I personally keep and breed gouldians to produced better birds than the ones I had the previous year.which is what every serious gouldian breeder tries to achieve.the gouldian in captivity has thrived because of breeders geniune love of the bird.
Not by setting show standards,that only leads to infighting ,as is the case in budgie and canary shows.

Uraeginthus wrote:In forming a standard of any bird, I recomend that all size, shape should be wildtype..

Ok thats fine, but exactly what size, shape, etc. is that?
I'm happy with my own idea of what I'm breeding towards with my own Gouldians and I will continue to do so for as long as I enjoy breeding Gouldians, but what about newcomers to aviculture who think the bird(s) they bought from the local petshop or somebodies culls at a birdsale are top quality Gouldian because they look pretty when, lets face it, any Gouldian which isn't sick looks nice.

I'm a little bit on the fence, Regarding above comments I agree alot with Tiaris and also some of Crocnshas views, I think there has to be some form of Ideal Gouldian form, but that does pose problems as everyone has different versions of Ideal.....I think if we breed for sharp colouring, clear marked heads, long tails, round top of head, good stance, and hopefully they don't grow in size....we will be okay as Gouldian breeders..

Tiaris wrote:

Uraeginthus wrote:In forming a standard of any bird, I recomend that all size, shape should be wildtype..

Ok thats fine, but exactly what size, shape, etc. is that?
I'm happy with my own idea of what I'm breeding towards with my own Gouldians and I will continue to do so for as long as I enjoy breeding Gouldians, but what about newcomers to aviculture who think the bird(s) they bought from the local petshop or somebodies culls at a birdsale are top quality Gouldian because they look pretty when, lets face it, any Gouldian which isn't sick looks nice.

As stated earlier, I reckon somewhere there is a type specimen in a museum which was used to first identify this species. That is, to me, the ideal objective standard of the wildtype bird.

Tom,after seeing gouldians in the wild on the 2010 count,their colours are the same as the ones in our aviaries and there's a lot of variation in their colours as well in the wild.Also,i did notice that the wild birds are considerably smaller than the domesticated ones in our aviaries so domestication has already increased the birds in size,so if we are going to use an old wild specimen type as a standard we will have to breed tiny birds.Ahh no,who's going to buy these birds,definately not me.
IMO,i think this topic should come to an end,and get onto the hobby of breeding gouldians. Craig

What kind of Gouldians should we get onto breeding? This topic is at the core of the question: what is a good (desirable) bird? To me, if we have no clear concept of exactly what features make a bird of any species a desirable specimen, we are breeding birds entirely without direction or over-riding purpose. VP started mentioning a few specific features which were most helpful eg. tail length, head shape, clarity of head colour, etc. These are the type of features which assist those who are not experienced in selecting quality stock. If new Gouldian breeders are just encouraged to accept the average quality of whatever birds they happened to acquire as their own idea of as good as it gets with Gouldians, they are missing out on the prospect of improving the quality of their birds over time and producing quality birds themselves. The over-riding goal of a standard or list of desirable features is to educate and inform inexperienced people to examine all the features of their birds and to aim to improve their birds toward specific features which only they accept as desirable. I believe there are many people who have not seen truly outstanding quality birds in many species. The lack of a quality ethic in bird breeding is a downer on the overall standard of far too many species IMO.