Australian Blue Gouldians versus European & American Blues

[Myzomela]

Finchy,

What you describe is typical of many colour mutations before they become established.

For example, when rosa bourke parrots and lutino eastern rosellas were being established, the youngsters were often developing clinical signs of PBFD (Psittacine Beak and Feather Disease) when their split or normal siblings appeared normal ( most were actually carriers of the disease).

In some mutations a lethal gene is involved, or a weakness which is directly linked to the presence of the colour mutation gene. For example, one of the canary mutations in Europe (white? albino?- sorry don't have the reference handy) can't manufacture its own Vitamin A and hence needs a much higher level of this vitamin in its diet, otherwise it becomes ill and breeds poorly.

However, as Tiaris has pointed out, many of the problems stem from inbreeding and lack of taking the responsible, long-term approach which will result in strong birds being established. In other words, the $$$ takes precedence over good avicultural practice.

Another example- the humble cockatiel. In the 1980's one of the American avian vets told us that the average lifespan of cockatiels in the US was 5-6 yrs!
We couldn't believe it. Here, we would have expected at least 12 yrs and often more, even on poor seed-only diets. At that time we only had normal grey and lutino cockatiels and pearls. Overseas, of course, they had a lot more and very few normal birds.

Today, the only cockatiels I see that are "old" ie 10 yrs plus, are normal greys, occasionally a lutino. By contrast, I see a lot more sickly birds of the current favourite mutations- often multiple mutations that have poor size, conformation and vigour and which die prematurely.

Congratulations must go to those doing the right thing. The blues should continue to improve and eventually be just as strong as normals as Marek has suggested is the case in Europe.

Having said all this, I still consider the Gouldian Finch to be one of the most susceptible finch species I see. The joke is that Gouldians do 2 things very well- they breed well, and they die well! Maybe a little harsh, but we have found more diseases in Gouldians than any other finch, including zebras.

[natamambo]

Finchy, that reinforces Tiaris' comment about lack of genetic diversity in the bird. Blue + blue in a breeding program is more likely to come from related birds than an outcrossing / incrossing program.

Edit - Myzo said it all and more faster than I could .

[natamambo]

Snip

Having said all this, I still consider the Gouldian Finch to be one of the most susceptible finch species I see. The joke is that Gouldians do 2 things very well- they breed well, and they die well! Maybe a little harsh, but we have found more diseases in Gouldians than any other finch, including zebras.

Why I cut my Gouldian numbers right back and moved on to Softbills, waaaaayyy easier .

[Finchy]

Thanks Myzo, that was very interesting.

What my annoyingly curious brain is eager to understand is perhaps impossible, but I'll try anyway... I understand the broad principle of poor breeding/narrow gene pools resulting in low quality birds. Just like a badly designed car, a product from that production line won't run well. I am interested to grasp what exactly is wrong with the mechanism as a result. e.g. The clutch slips and will always slip because of XYZ design fault. In the poorly bred Blue Gouldians, what specific bird 'bit' goes wrong as a result?

Perhaps an impossible question...

[Tiaris]

Snip

Having said all this, I still consider the Gouldian Finch to be one of the most susceptible finch species I see. The joke is that Gouldians do 2 things very well- they breed well, and they die well! Maybe a little harsh, but we have found more diseases in Gouldians than any other finch, including zebras.

Why I cut my Gouldian numbers right back and moved on to Softbills, waaaaayyy easier .

You've got to be joking.
Gouldians are the most uncomplicated finch I've ever bred. All the hoo haa over weak mutants,etc. gives some the impression that they are a difficult species & this is far from the truth. Normal robust Gouldians are simple.
Softbills are far higher maintenance.

[mattymeischke]

In some mutations a lethal gene is involved, or a weakness which is directly linked to the presence of the colour mutation gene. For example, one of the canary mutations in Europe (white? albino?- sorry don't have the reference handy) can't manufacture its own Vitamin A and hence needs a much higher level of this vitamin in its diet, otherwise it becomes ill and breeds poorly.

The recessive white (I have only seen the dominant white in Australia) is said to require beef suet or vitamin supplements.
I think that may be the one you are referring to.

Unlike the dominant whites, which have some yellow on the wings and about the vent, the recessive whites are pure white.

[Myzomela]

You are correct Matty, it is the recessive white.
Apparently they suffer from a genetic defect that prevents the absorption of of carotenoids from the intestine.
Therefore, they are completely dependent on the presence of vitamin A in the food. They need approx 20,000 IU of Vitamin A/Kg soft food, compared to normal canaries which only need 15,000 IU/KG.

I'm not saying this applies to gouldians. It's just an example of a genetic defect linked to a colour mutation in birds.

[Aussie_Bengo]

Thanks for everyone's responses.
Some good info here.