Avery sad and expensive day

[timh]

This is probably a dumb though, so feel free to shoot me down in flames, BUT celery is a diuretic right? It is my main source of greens when the weed patch isn't producing...
Could that effect fluid retention and body mass hydration??

[Diane]

After a quick Google I read that celery seed is a diuretic.
Something to note was that it takes more calories to consume a piece of celery than it contains so while this may be a great food for dieters it may not be so good for finches especially if they are raising young.

[mattymeischke]

Diuretics increase heat stress by causing more urine to be passed, 'tis a bad idea, methinks.
Giving sugar in the water could also cause more urine to be passed, by osmotic diuresis, and could also lead to dehydration.
Ample clean fresh water is best.

[Netsurfer]

That's a part of the art of keeping birds. At that temperature if the aviary is exposed to full sun, lucky many of us didn't lose more.

[GregH]

The discussion of avian excretion is an interesting aside and might be better addressed by a veterinarian (which I am not) but I'll share what I do know. Bird kidneys are very different to ours in that they mainly excrete uric acid (the white stuff in their droppings) rather than urea as we and other mammals do. Nitrogenous waste comes from the breakdown of proteins and amino acids by the body to form ammonia which is toxic but can be diluted and extracted from the bloodstream then excreted with lots of water as happens with fish but terrestrial vertebrates are more water limited and have developed other ways of detoxifying the waste in ways that conserves water. Diuretics increase the amount of water expelled by the kidneys and in mammals the kidneys empty into a bladder but in birds the waste goes into the cloaca where water is normally reabsorbed before expulsion. In addition to their excretory function the kidneys play a major part in osmoregulation. Birds with very liquid diets, like nectar & fruit eaters can have very wet droppings because they need concentrate the nutrition in their diet and expel the waste (don't stand too close to the lorikeet cage) but granivores like finches don't so what happens if you give a finch a diuretic like celery? My thinking is that celery is mainly water which has to be excreted. If the bird is already sufficiently hydrated the excreted water might be expelled in the faeces but my thinking is that the bird will adjust it's water intake so you'd never notice because the water would be reabsorbed before it defecates. If a finch eats so much celery that it's faeces becomes sloppy then it's likely that the seed dish is empty and that's the problem not dehyration.

[TomDeGraaff]

Now I'm not a vet either. However, until our vet friends either get out of bed or off the golf course (only gaggin' fellas!), some more speculation can only help cloud the issue!!!

Because our birds are largely herbivorous, I would suspect that they are able to cope with celery and its structure.

However, they don't experience things like hydrolytes, gatorade and such things in the wild.

They have their ways of regulating their internal systems using diet, salts, clean water etc. I think if we only make treated water available to them, they cannot do this self regulating very well. Also, whether it is the kidney, bladder or cloaca involved, the blood is the key here. if what goes in is high or low concentration, then they still need to regulate it.

In really hot weather, making stuff available to the birds, keeping them quiet and have access to the ground or cooler spots in the aviary are important.

I at first thought I could maybe put something like spark in the water but I'm tending away from that. Such chemicals would be useful in out-of-the-ordinary situations like being moved or being sick or injured.

[Myzomela]

Ok Uraeginthus,
I've come back from my 2 week island vacation on Tahiti, lying on the beach & sipping Mohitos- I wish!

Firstly, some anatomy. Birds are unique in that their kidneys contain both reptilian & mammalian nephrons.

A nephron is the urine filtration unit within each kidney. There are many nephrons per kidney.

Reptilian nephrons cannot concentrate urine because they lack a loop of Henle; Mammalian nephrons are very good at concentrating urine. Therefore mammals and birds are the only animals that can concentrate their urine. If you concentrate your urine, it means that the body can reabsorb water from your urine and thus conserve water.

Unfortunately, only 10-30% of the avian kidney contains mammalian nephrons, so birds are less efficient than mammals at urine concentration.

However, both birds and reptiles have the ability to reabsorb fluid from their cloaca by pushing their urine and faeces back and forth between the cloaca and rectum. Each time the urofaeces enter the rectum, more fluid can be absorbed. That is one reason why faeces and uartes often appear intertwined when seen on the ground.

Secondly, as for electrolytes. Electrolytes are popular with people partly because of the salts lost in sweat.

Since birds don't sweat, but dissipate heat by panting and evaporative fluid loss from the lining of the mouth, then electrolyte loss is less of an issue. It is more important in diarrhoea.

Since we are talking about overheated birds, I believe that the provision of fresh cool water is much more important than the provision of electrolytes during hot weather. If hot weather extends over many days, then a short period of elctrolyte provision, say 24 hrs, may be worthwhile.

Does this answer everyone's questions?

PS: Birds do not have bladders. The filtered urine from the kidneys enters directly into the cloaca.

[Finches2011]

Excellent overview. We could use a series on bird physiology in Finch News.
Gary

[Finchy]

Excellent overview. We could use a series on bird physiology in Finch News.
Gary

Ooh, yes please.

[vettepilot_6]

Thanks Myzo...easy once you know how it all works