Aussie Finch Forum

Sex-linked mutations are very easy to "cleanse" with confidence. All normal looking hens are normal. If a normal looking pair produces young fawn hens, the parent cock is split fawn. Cull on that basis & you should have a pure flock withing 2 seasons.

Plumb coloured eyes, and they are caused by the cinnamon/fawn gene. But using fawn to fawn will give you all fawn. You use a fawns to normals and the birds of the opposite sex to the fawn parent are normal. Provided the normal parent does not have any recessive genes that they got. Sorry it is possible, just not guaranteed.
LML

That's just downright confusing. With sex-linked recessive mutations only cocks can be split. A split male mated to a normal will produce some fawns, then you know you have a split cock & can cull him if you wish.

You cannot confuse "clutch" with "population" in relation to ratios. The simplest evidence for this the same mutation appearing in different breeders "spontaneously" within a year or two of each other, in all likelihood, the genes were floating around the population for some time and it was "chance" that brought the two split parents together.

Consider the range of genetic disorders in humans - if we treat these as being "mutations" for the moment, I have a condition that occurs at less than 3:10,000 live births and is "probably" genetically related. On the one hand it is "rare" because it is less than 1:2000 live births, on the other it is not uncommon given the population size - approx 200,000 people in America currently live with the condition. Today's paper in Melb has an article about a little boy whose condition occurs 1:200,000. Now, that's rare!

It is wishful thinking to believe that after a few clutches or even a few generations you have weeded out all mutations, all that you have is an "on the balance of probabilities" level of certainty.

natamambo wrote: all that you have is an "on the balance of probabilities" level of certainty.

And in civil court decision that is all that is required . . . In a criminal court it is 'beyond reasonable doubt' (a little further down the continuum of certainty)

Neither are are absolutely certain but in the imperfect world that we live in, some level of risk-taking is necessary, or we would never make a decision at all . .

Or even get out of bed in the morning

Tiaris wrote:That's just downright confusing. With sex-linked recessive mutations only cocks can be split. A split male mated to a normal will produce some fawns, then you know you have a split cock & can cull him if you wish.

That is very true with that mutation but in a previous post of yours,you said you would end up with a pure flock in two seasons,the only thing wrong with that would be they will be all normal hens,so it all starts again trying to source none mutant cocks to get back to breeding pure normals. Craig

With all the mutation haters out there I would have thought that mutations are only a small % of the population......so why all the concern....seems to be the usual huff and puff and concern about mutations with no real purpose

gouldianpaul wrote:With all the mutation haters out there I would have thought that mutations are only a small % of the population......so why all the concern....seems to be the usual huff and puff and concern about mutations with no real purpose

NO it wasnt a post on mutation haters...I'm trying to get pure normal Java Sparrows as I have been looking for 3 yrs and can't find any...so I thought if it was possible to reverse the process...True I don't like mutations, but hats off to those that do and breed them (just not my thing)...I am hoping that by getting some mutated Java's I could reverse the process...hence the questions.Cheers Dave

gouldianpaul wrote:With all the mutation haters out there I would have thought that mutations are only a small % of the population......so why all the concern....seems to be the usual huff and puff and concern about mutations with no real purpose

I think you have missed the point. Us "mutation haters" would prefer that coloured birds not show in our attempts to keep normal birds.

VP has asked a valid question and I think the % of flocks without mutated genes is much smaller than you think.

I'm not suggesting legal issues or definitions Arthur, rather reassuring "mutation haters" that they are free to feel paranoid for decades.