Aussie Finch Forum

Just one thing ...

When do wages go up in line with all these pissy little 0.7s .

Just one more thing ...

I think we are very aware of what we as humans are doing to the planet HOWEVER the carbon tax is not the solution .

And why is this the first band aid offered ? Why has there not been a choice of fix its ? Why do we not get a voice on this ?

jusdeb wrote:Just one thing ...

When do wages go up in line with all these pissy little 0.7s .

can i answer this question with a question? why do you feel you deserve to be reimbursed?

jusdeb wrote:Just one more thing ...

I think we are very aware of what we as humans are doing to the planet HOWEVER the carbon tax is not the solution .

not the solution, but it is a solution. i agree many more are needed to come....

jusdeb wrote:And why is this the first band aid offered ? Why has there not been a choice of fix its ? Why do we not get a voice on this ?

because its a rather practical and mild first step designed to give incentive to business to invest in alternative sustainable energy sources. and since you can't stomach this teeny change - are HONESTLY saying you would be prepared to make the much larger acceptance of changes in its place?

and in regards to "not getting a voice" - lets be honest, governments don't give their citizens a voice on plenty of issues. why? because if they did we would be debating eternally and never making a call. nothing would get done. look at the issue of climate change itself. we gave that a debate - and it was downright ridiculous. you had the consensus of the worlds climate scientists dragged down to the level of having to debate the average joe who has no education whatsoever on the issue. it was insulting to the intellect of humankind.

but please just answer my first question - why do you think you don't have to pay?

Entertaining, informative and some strong opinions on both sides. As this is a bird forum maybe we should return to that topic.

Oh dear ...
Of course we have to pay .
Us commoners have a habit of getting narky when another tax or price hike hits us .

Is that alright with you T/Jaws .

Yes politics sucks and should not be debated on the forum ...can see why now.

Regarding Henley Station. Yah! 1 for the environment.
Beijing managed to turn their polution down very soundly in time for the Olimpic games by banning cars and shutting down coal fired power stations. Perhaps we could ban cars one day a week? Yes It would only be a drop in the ocean. But Great Oaks from little acorns grow.
And I know, like Greg and Spanna and Toothless that sitting on our hands and bemoaning the cost will solve nothing.
Think of this as our chance to start an avalanche world wide by example, cause we let the first snowflake fall.
LML

A horse ride to Henley station sounds like a great idea.Problem is I still remember the last time I got on a horse,Was 8 weeks off work with a fractured pelvis.I will take the chuck wagon

Well there ya go ..Finchbreeder suggested something practical like a car free day .
These are the things I want to hear .

And of course Ill whinge about the money but Ill still pay the tax and Ill kick along with it . Just like most people .

Back on track YAY yes buy up the big stations , muster the ferals and turn them into pet food and sit back and watch the natives move back in .

Lets hope.

Fascinating opinions.
May I suggest that some are coming at this all consequentialist (the outcome is the issue, if nothing changes there's no point), and others are going all deontological (the outcome is irrelevant, what's important is to do the 'right' thing); perhaps there is a middle position...
For the record, I tend to the latter view, but I think that we can all agree that we are run by a mob of boofheaded winners of a triannual popularity contest, driven to follow public opinion by their political imperatives and wholly disinterested in right, wrong and climate change science. Followers, not leaders....
We can also agree that governments often make bad decisions and often change their minds, and we have precious little power as individuals to influence those decisions.
Where our power lies in in our own actions, and those who are concerned about climate change can make any number of small changes to their own behaviour to reduce their contribution to climate change tomorrow.

Apropos the stations, I would love to see some restored to native veg. & cetera, but I fear that when companies and a well-intentioned set of regulations come together, the result is often a perversion of the initial intentions.
For example, organic accreditation of foods is quite demanding these days, but Coles/Woolies et al have become adept at meeting the requirements of the accrediting agencies in the least expensive way, then charging fat premiums for organic produce. However, if Aunty Pat sells her homemade jams at the show, she may not call them organic if Uncle Pete has sprayed weeds on the land at any time in the last seven years. Perhaps the companies will surprise me here, but their incentives are all financial and I suspect they will try to extract maximum carbon credits for minimum cost. This could mean, for example, planting blue gums on any land that will take them and then irrigating them to the sh*thouse to encourage rapid growth, increased carbon sequestration, and thereby increased carbon credits. Further, companies go bust, get mismanaged, and get bought out by foreign companies who may have less understanding of Australian conditions, and are certainly less likely to respond to public concerns. Companies also tend to expect a predictable return, whereas any Australian (at least West of the divide) understands that Australia doesn't do predictable very well.

FInally, I believe that to look after land you need to inhabit it: you need to be physically present and interested. Ideally, you need to have a long term interest (such as your family's future) to motivate farsighted thinking.

Just my two bob's worth...

Deb's new display/sale box is a great example of small-scale practical action on climate change: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=8372" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Using no new materials, reducing the volume of waste in the skip behind Bunnings (and by extension in landfill), and it looks great.
If everybody did something like that every day, I daresay it would have more effect that this confounded carbon tax........

Well spoken matty you hit the nail on the head so to speak .