Beware to all gouldian finch breeder in all state
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TomDeGraaff
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- Posts: 1024
- Joined: 25 Jul 2012, 11:04
- Location: Melbourne
It seems to me that people should not buy birds unless they can afford them. I have no qualms about paying for stock before acquiring them. If I have to hold off until pay day, then that's what I do. I buy from people I know or have had recommended to me.
Whether you are buyer or seller, ask around before you buy from someone you don't know.
Conversely, I expect the same courtesy (and checking up about me!) from those to whom I send stock.
On the issue of new acquisitions dying, it's very awkward. Living things die for all sorts of reasons. Aportioning blame is much harder. I don't believe in guarantees and a paper trail can only tell you the passage of the animal from one person to another and the cost involved. BUT if there are signs of deception (selling a split hen of a sex-linked mutation), neglect (no seed or water for the long freight trip) or pre-existing illness (discover wet bottoms upon arrival), then that is different.
I'm afraid that if a perfectly healthy bird drops dead, then it's hard to do anything other than just put it aside as an unfortunate experience. That's life.
Again, caveat emptor comes into play.
Tom
Whether you are buyer or seller, ask around before you buy from someone you don't know.
Conversely, I expect the same courtesy (and checking up about me!) from those to whom I send stock.
On the issue of new acquisitions dying, it's very awkward. Living things die for all sorts of reasons. Aportioning blame is much harder. I don't believe in guarantees and a paper trail can only tell you the passage of the animal from one person to another and the cost involved. BUT if there are signs of deception (selling a split hen of a sex-linked mutation), neglect (no seed or water for the long freight trip) or pre-existing illness (discover wet bottoms upon arrival), then that is different.
I'm afraid that if a perfectly healthy bird drops dead, then it's hard to do anything other than just put it aside as an unfortunate experience. That's life.
Again, caveat emptor comes into play.
Tom
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Spitfire
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- Posts: 367
- Joined: 15 Jul 2014, 20:28
- Location: Melbourne
Hello Tom, Are you telling me that you pay $200 for a pair of birds, they keel over within 24 hours and you have no redress.The seller keeps the money and you end up with CAVEAT EMPTOR, which by the way I don,t know what it means.. I would like to suggest to you
that something should be done about it. Like at least get half your money back. There are laws about buying birds from a pet shop/dealor,
the same laws should apply to private bird sellers.
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iaos
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- Joined: 18 Aug 2009, 20:07
- Location: Newcastle, NSW
- Location: Newcastle, NSW
Is this thread still going? I think Tino has made his point regarding the seller and warning others.
Spitfire, how long can you go on about your bad luck for? Either deal with people you trust or don't buy birds you can't afford to lose. Sometimes you just get unlucky, no point dwelling on it, it will just keep you down
Spitfire, how long can you go on about your bad luck for? Either deal with people you trust or don't buy birds you can't afford to lose. Sometimes you just get unlucky, no point dwelling on it, it will just keep you down
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Spitfire
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- Posts: 367
- Joined: 15 Jul 2014, 20:28
- Location: Melbourne
iaos.. It is not BAD LUCK Its downright THIEFING. I will keep harping about this subject until the cows come home and beyond.
Thiefs should not be in Aviculture. In future If I am ever THIEFED again I swear I will name names and the culprit can sue me.
Thats how much I care about this issue, its not a case that I cannot afford to buy birds. If I am not allowed on the Forum to do this I will find another platform.
Thiefs should not be in Aviculture. In future If I am ever THIEFED again I swear I will name names and the culprit can sue me.
Thats how much I care about this issue, its not a case that I cannot afford to buy birds. If I am not allowed on the Forum to do this I will find another platform.
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TomDeGraaff
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- Posts: 1024
- Joined: 25 Jul 2012, 11:04
- Location: Melbourne
Yes, Guy. Unless there is evidence as I described of either foul play or disease, then I can see no comeback.It's hard but these are the vaguaries of dealing with livestock. If you deal with reasonable people and they are receptive, maybe some arrangement could be made. You see, from a sellers point of view, if I sell to someone I don't know, they may put the birds outside at dusk, in bad weather or maybe keep them in a draughty laundry in an all wire cage. They may have dropped the carry cage or squeezed the bird too tightly when catching it. Their inexperience may have been a factor. Livestock are a risk to both buyers and sellers.Spitfire wrote:
The seller keeps the money and you end up with CAVEAT EMPTOR, which by the way I don,t know what it means.. I would like to suggest to you
that something should be done about it. Like at least get half your money back. There are laws about buying birds from a pet shop/dealor,
the same laws should apply to private bird sellers.
If a person you don't know sells you 4 "pairs" of something then there is a risk unless you get dna sexed birds or look at them yourself and make a determination yourself. Anyway, that's my thinking. I hate thieves too but we all have to keep wary of these people and act on our own knowledge and resources when buying birds.
Caveat emptor basically means "buyer beware".
This forum is great for airing these matters. It's great to get everyone's ideas. I reckon those who misbehave should be named but you have to be very careful legally.
Keep the fire in the belly, Guy. When this sort of thing happens, we all need to know. Thanks Spitfire, thanks Mr Tino
Cheers
Tom
This is a worthwhile topic for some discussion but it probably deserved its own topic heading. Oh well...
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BluJay
Uraeginthus, you wrote that well. Painted very clear picture. I had trouble sleeping, as what you describe was heavy on mind.
I find it astonishing, a seller would ship an animal without providing for it's basic needs and comfort during transport. This is a totally thoughtless act which in no way can be justified.
In my mind, what you describe as to the condition of the birds, is they fell victim to opportunistic invaders, coccidia, and/or giardia. Or were shipped in frail health in the first place. I would have had took those animals to a vet, to back the condition of the them.
Where I come from, both coccidia and giardia, come from DAMP, FILTHY environments. An animal in good health , immune system keeps these parasites in check. In view of the fact the animals presented with symptoms suggestive of these parasites, as well as, inhumane shipment. I would report the seller to the airline, and every animal activist organisation possible, in the absence of a complete and total refund.
Then insult to injury, seller is deceitful. Sending you a hen other than what was to be. All I can say about the seller is: "OH WHAT A TANGLED WEB WE WEAVE WHEN PRACTICE TO DECEIVE". I would leave no stone un turned to rectify this wrong.
This caliber of conduct is what pushed me over the edge when I first came to this forum.
I am very sorry for your loss. Kind Regards.
I find it astonishing, a seller would ship an animal without providing for it's basic needs and comfort during transport. This is a totally thoughtless act which in no way can be justified.
In my mind, what you describe as to the condition of the birds, is they fell victim to opportunistic invaders, coccidia, and/or giardia. Or were shipped in frail health in the first place. I would have had took those animals to a vet, to back the condition of the them.
Where I come from, both coccidia and giardia, come from DAMP, FILTHY environments. An animal in good health , immune system keeps these parasites in check. In view of the fact the animals presented with symptoms suggestive of these parasites, as well as, inhumane shipment. I would report the seller to the airline, and every animal activist organisation possible, in the absence of a complete and total refund.
Then insult to injury, seller is deceitful. Sending you a hen other than what was to be. All I can say about the seller is: "OH WHAT A TANGLED WEB WE WEAVE WHEN PRACTICE TO DECEIVE". I would leave no stone un turned to rectify this wrong.
This caliber of conduct is what pushed me over the edge when I first came to this forum.
I am very sorry for your loss. Kind Regards.
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Craig52
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- Posts: 5078
- Joined: 11 Nov 2011, 19:26
- Location: victoria
Guys,you have to remember that what we do is a HOBBY,not a BUSINESS(0wps sorry for the capitals) and i understand where you are coming from but putting aggressive birds together and losing them is not the sellers fault no matter what that breeder told you, it's yours for not researching before you buy them.I don't believe those aggressive birds were sick,but confined together with hens is a recipe for disaster which was bound to happen.
Buying birds that are hard to define the sexes and unseen is also a recipe for disaster,imo you should have them dna sexed before hand at your cost or buy uncoloured birds from different breeders and more than what you want and let them colour up and pick there own mates then sell off what you don't want.Buying uncoloured birds are usually cheaper but the sexes are on you when they do colour up and you would have to be very unlucky to have all cocks or lucky to have all hens where cocks are easy to find.
It is gut wrenching when i hear what has happened to your birds but you are both at fault and if you get angry towards each other or towards people on this forum then you need to sit back and suck it up,you are the one suffering not me but believe me i have been there and it hurts but lessons are learnt and you do learn to go about things in a more appropriate way.
Craig
Ps Can this topic be changed, selling/buying birds as it's a bit unfair to Mr tino
Buying birds that are hard to define the sexes and unseen is also a recipe for disaster,imo you should have them dna sexed before hand at your cost or buy uncoloured birds from different breeders and more than what you want and let them colour up and pick there own mates then sell off what you don't want.Buying uncoloured birds are usually cheaper but the sexes are on you when they do colour up and you would have to be very unlucky to have all cocks or lucky to have all hens where cocks are easy to find.
It is gut wrenching when i hear what has happened to your birds but you are both at fault and if you get angry towards each other or towards people on this forum then you need to sit back and suck it up,you are the one suffering not me but believe me i have been there and it hurts but lessons are learnt and you do learn to go about things in a more appropriate way.
Craig
Ps Can this topic be changed, selling/buying birds as it's a bit unfair to Mr tino
@craig52, Good experience does come from bad judgement.