Aussie Finch Forum

E Orix wrote:I think you did the correct thing if they were the ones I saw I don't think they were pure.
Sadly someone has put some Bengalese or Spice Finch blood into them.
Their chests must be clean and white

this makes me feel a bit better.

looking at my russell kingston book he mentions the variablity, high possibility of hybrids and confusion regarding the species taxonomy in australia. the photograph his book show birds with "dirty" speckled breasts.

however a quick google search shows birds with much cleaner white breasts (though some have very faint spotting). are the pure birds hard to come by? more expensive?

also, are you talking about the birds owned by the gentleman who was down your end of the hall in the isle infront of the windows?

E Orix wrote:Natamambo
You didn't tell the members you purchased so much you needed a trolley to get all your purchases to the car.

Also met 6 forum members, problem is they all made me feel old. Actually it is great to see so many younger people so interested in our hobby.

I did say I bought lots of aviary clobber . The trolley was offered to us by the seed man who recognised class when he saw it - in the form of my wife's Bombers windcheater .

Overall, having never been to a bird sale before, I must say I was disappointed. Yes, I bought a few pairs of Gouldians to spread bloodlines around with driving all over the country and the longtails were an impulse buy (my wife has kept longails ever since I introduced her to finches when we married 28 years ago and the thought of a chance to breed pearls was too strong a temptation). Overall though, I had expected a greater range of birds in both species and number. I wanted a pair of normal princesses, there were none (plenty of mutations and overpriced splits though), also a couple of pairs of diamonds, again there were none. In the end I sacrificed the aviary space planned for the diamonds to the longtails (aren't I a good husband ).

In the past the Ballarat sale would be 6 times larger and on the 2nd weekend of Aug.
Melb. sale is not classed as a big sale but its still enjoyable.

There are a few pure Javan Munias around and they are not that expensive but reasonably hard to locate.
Yes the birds I was talking about were near the window.
I was a little interested when I read the sign but backed off when I saw them.
I actually purchased birds as well,I picked up the pair of Chaffinches,they were so under priced at the end that I couldn't resist them.
Its quite awhile since i have kept them and they are a nice specie.

I was selling at the sale and met with 4 forum members, was great to meet them, E Orix was easy to pick out as he had an aussie finch forum logo on his jumper.

Yes the Ballarat bird sale is huge and the Melb bird sale has always struggled since moving to Latrobe uni. Having been to most of the Ballarat and Melbourne sales over the years here are a few reasons why Ballarat is so much more popular.

1. Ballarat was the last ASA sub branch to have a sale and so had to settle for the late winter time slot. this turned out to be a godsend as people like to buy their birds after they have wintered at someone elses aviaries rather than pre-winter.
2. There has never been an overcrowding issue at Ballarat , they saw the sale growing and moved to larger premises ahead of time, alot got turned off with Mornington and Bendigo sales when they were held in scout hall size halls before moving to larger premises. Sellers hate not being behind the trestle.
3. The parking at Melbourne for sellers is terrible. You have to leave your birds to long to drop off and get your car
4. Melbourne have pushed their bird sale time closer to Ballarat's time this year but found itself in the school holidays now
5. Ballarat sale actually have bird valets when you turn up with your birds you register at the front and a couple of valets take all your birds/supplies to your table while you park. When you return someone will see you and show you to your site.
6. The catering at Ballarat is outstanding, their is homemade soup and other things, I love the hotdogs. If you see the crates of rolls at the start they must make a killing off the catering and they deserve to. Like all aspects of Ballarat the catering operates like a well oiled machine.
7. My 1st Ballarat sale a queue formed in front of my birds at the start and I sold every last bird in 1/2 an hour, then freed of that responsibility I was able to look around and find all the birds I was after and enjoy great company and catering. It has kept me coming back and every year they find a way to improve it.

I think its sad what's been done to Javan Munias especially when you consider that much of the crossing with bengalese was deliberate and done by a couple of very experienced finch breeders. I had some Javan's when they were fairly "fresh" in the late 80s & young birds in their 1st year would have some dark flank stripes but these soon moulted out to clean white. The most obvious hybrid sign I've seen in them lately is scaley markings in the dark upper chest area. This was never on the pure ones - the dark areas were clean and uninterupted. Also the tameness and other bengalese habits such as nesting & roosting in boxes, crowing regularly, breeding fawn & other mutants and slightly larger size. The originals were very shy indeed and only ever nested in vegetation. It was extremely rare to see courtship behaviour such was their shyness.

Thanks for those comments Tiaris & E orix- some very good points for the uninitiated regarding Javan munias.

Some other places suggest they actually have White-bellied munias ( Lonchura leucogastra)in Australia as well as Javans & that they breed well. I can't help but be a little sceptical of that claim.

I for one am getting a bit sick and tired of all this hybridization and mutations in all forms of aviculture in Australia and frankly am getting a bit disillusioned by it all. I understand that hybridization is sometimes a necessity to preserve some species which are desperately low in numbers, but when it's done for convenience or for perpetuating a new mutation I find that difficult to accept.

I have nothing against pure mutations per se ( as distinct from mutations derived by hybridization- more a parrot than a finch problem), but when you consistently struggle to find good quality normals of the more common species then it's a sad reflection on the current state of aviculture.

OK- I'm off my soap box now- off to get some happy pills!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed. For their 1st few years at in Oz at least Javans were incorrectly believed to be white-bellied by all & sundry. I've never seen white-bellieds in Aussie aviculture. Anything's possible but I doubt very much that there any here. Look up Restall's book to see what white-bellied are like - very different from Javans.

Must own up.
We started calling them that back in 81/82 we just thought they looked like white bellied munias.
Ignorance is bliss.
I will try and get some close ups in a couple of weeks as they breed in the gardens of the resort we are staying at

E Orix wrote:I will try and get some close ups in a couple of weeks as they breed in the gardens of the resort we are staying at

that would be much appreciated E Oryx. The artist in me has a good eye and memory for bird identification and if i see some wild types i'll know what to look for.

i think one of the things that appealed to me was there very small size. i am very fond of small birds - indeed the smaller the better (hence my love of waxbills) and the ones at the sale seemed far smaller than other Lonchura species i've seen. in fact Kingston's book says has them at 9cm - the same as orange breasts.

i'm now pretty keen on the idea of getting some since not requiring live food, i think they will do well with me. so if anyone has any leads to pure birds - please let me know!

maybe i'll have to go try the Ballarat sale!