Is it possible to reverse Mutations back to Normals

[Danny]

... In addition to the Philippines Javas have established wild populations on Christmas Island so technically AUstralia does have pure wild Javas. ...

Hmmm... interesting... therefore as Javas are an introduced species on an Australain territory then one could simply trap some and bring them back to the mainland? Maybe a few of the asylums seekers could bring some to the mainland once their time on the island expires. Now that would be a far simpler solution compared to spending 10 years trying to breed out all mutations.

We've been asking for permission to catch the feral green junglefowl on Christmas Island for 30 years and have made zero progress.

[Tintola]

... In addition to the Philippines Javas have established wild populations on Christmas Island so technically Australia does have pure wild Javas. ...

Hmmm... interesting... therefore as Javas are an introduced species on an Australian territory then one could simply trap some and bring them back to the mainland? Maybe a few of the asylums seekers could bring some to the mainland once their time on the island expires. Now that would be a far simpler solution compared to spending 10 years trying to breed out all mutations.

Not so simple Sam. Try getting anything on or off Norfolk Island. Buckley's! And it is part of Australia.

[SamDavis]

Danny and Tint - you do understand my comments are "tongue in cheek" however common-sense they may seem to me. Yet another example where the illogical nonsense of government bureaucracy in effect encourages suspect behaviour - surely a few dozen Javas and Jungle fowl could manage the flight to the mainland.

Not so simple Sam. Try getting anything on or off Norfolk Island. Buckley's! And it is part of Australia.

Not sure the "pitcairners" see themselves as part of Australia (unless they need our money that is).

[gouldianpaul]

Tom,

It's fairly obvious to buyers who come to my avairy that i have mutations in my flock....cause there's heap flying around...so I don't need to tell them the obvious that the birds they are buying could have mutations "hidden" as split.....and no normal birds are bought sight unseen (eg interstate freight)......and in the past all buyers who have purcahsed normals from me have already been aware of the mutations available.....so they should know the basics about genetics and in particular recessive genes and the possibility of splits....but I do talk to them about how recessive mutations work to assist them with their knowledge.

Graham,

It's fairly easy to identify which birds come from who/where when in a colony system....use some leg rings and keep accurate records.

Unless any posts raise any new points thats all for me on this topic....cheers, Paul

[natamambo]

It's fairly easy to identify which birds come from who/where when in a colony system....use some leg rings and keep accurate records

It's well known that Gouldians are promiscuous, leg rings and records only allow us to be certain which flight a bird came from and who the mother is but not for certain who the father is. Even identifying the mother presumes closed rings before fledging which many of us can't do and that the mother can be clearly identified entering / leaving the box from almost identical birds. It's why I make sure any flight has visually different hens by body or head colour mixes.

[gouldianpaul]

It's fairly easy to identify which birds come from who/where when in a colony system....use some leg rings and keep accurate records

It's well known that Gouldians are promiscuous, leg rings and records only allow us to be certain which flight a bird came from and who the mother is but not for certain who the father is. Even identifying the mother presumes closed rings before fledging which many of us can't do and that the mother can be clearly identified entering / leaving the box from almost identical birds. It's why I make sure any flight has visually different hens by body or head colour mixes.

aaah to be so perfect and right all the time....I love how you use instances that account for a small percentage of occurances as the main reason for your arguement.....stick to the theory and the wrest of us will worry about putting gouldians on the perch!!!!!

[natamambo]

Sorry Paul if you have taken my post as a criticism of yourself, nothing could be further from the truth. I respect enormously what you and your group of "co breeders" have done to progress the Gouldian in captivity.

My post was intended to reflect the seriousness of the thread. Random mutations in flocks are frustrating to breeders who want pure normals, as seen already in this thread and frequently in others. Even with the best of intentions, and methods, in some cases we cannot provide that certainty they require.

[gouldianpaul]

Sorry Paul if you have taken my post as a criticism of yourself, nothing could be further from the truth. I respect enormously what you and your group of "co breeders" have done to progress the Gouldian in captivity.

My post was intended to reflect the seriousness of the thread. Random mutations in flocks are frustrating to breeders who want pure normals, as seen already in this thread and frequently in others. Even with the best of intentions, and methods, in some cases we cannot provide that certainty they require.

[TomDeGraaff]

I don't believe anyone, including me, was talking about you personally. My points however about unethical breeders remain.
At no stage was anyone calling you into question, gouldianpaul.
Deliberate misrepresentation of the genetics of birds sold is still a problem with the less reputable and more ignorant breeders and will be forever!! WE just need to deal with it, move on, and support efforts to both establish those lovely colours and also conserve a wildtype population for the future.
It is important to give people an option to either obtain any coloured bird or those that are wildtype and breed that way.

[E Orix]

I don't like where this is heading. Can we call it a draw,or agree to disagree. Debate is good but this is getting tooooo long.