2015 Gouldian Breeding Season... Any Starters Yet?

[paintedfiretail]

The problem is pf,to get white breasts BOTH parents need to be split to white breast so your hens are not pure and are split to white breast. Craig

If this is so I need to sit down study my records and do some culling.

[Painted4]

Hi craig I have no interest in any form of mutation or their genetics .I pluck all my young with in three days of fledging so I can determine the head colour and sex early .
Four out of eight young were showing signs of having a white breast (two from each clutch) both hens are off my stock and I consider them to be pure and not tanted
but if this the case looks like I need to pull some more heads as I would not sell them on as I feel very strong on this mater .

To have an interest in keeping mutation free birds you need to understand the genetics of mutations. To knock a bird on the head based on the fact it is carrying a recessive gene is plain ridiculous. Give it to someone who breeds mutations or give it to someone to keep as a pet.

Agree completely Iaos - absolutely no reason to 'destroy' a perfectly healthy bird.

[iaos]

The problem is pf,to get white breasts BOTH parents need to be split to white breast so your hens are not pure and are split to white breast. Craig

If this is so I need to sit down study my records and do some culling.

Every bird related to these hens are possible split white breast. So unless to are going to start from scratch, what you need to do now is actually get yourself a whole lot of white breasted birds and test breed all the stock you intend on keeping. If you breed at least 7 from a test pairing and turn up no WB, the chances that of your stock being split to WB is less than 1%. That would be good enough for me. You can sell all the offspring as split for WB.

[werty]

SAVING THE GOULDIAN IN THE WILD STANDS A CHANCE BUT IT HAS NO CHANCE IN CAPTIVITY .

Wait....because my gouldians are splits they have no chance in captivity?

Who cares what colour they are

Are they healthy...check
Are they 100% fertile ...check
Are they medication free except for worming and s76...check
Are they parent raised. ..check
Are they outdoors in unheated avairies...check
Are they successfully producing large clutches each and every time..check

I think my gouldians are bloody champions

If you dont want buy them because they are splits....no worries you dont have to

But I am definitely producing a strong flock of brilliant breeding gouldians

The end

[Tiaris]

Vicious circle isn't it?
To be confident that a bird is not split to a mutation it needs to spend its prime breeding life mated to a mutant bird producing more split mutations of sufficient numbers to increase your confidence that it is not split to that mutation. Even then you cannot be certain as it is entirely possible that a split bird will produce only splits at above the odds for several clutches. Then you have several other recessive mutations to test mate for & with those mutations be confident but never certain that the bird doesn't carry those genes. By the time you've almost convinced yourself the bird is not split to any known recessive mutation the bird has exhausted its productive breeding life producing large quantities of splits and it has contributed nothing to perpetuating pure stocks. Finally, as an aged decrepit bird it mates with another normal bird which you are confident but not certain is pure normal. Poor fertility due to old age results in a clutch of only one young which is very well-fed by its very experienced parents. Alas it is the first ever white-breasted blue dilute Australian yellow to be successfully reared. Congratulations.

[iaos]

Tiaris, I agree with what you are saying. However when a mutation turns up you can't just bury your head in the sand. You have two options, start from scratch or test breed.

I remember you saying that you have had WB turn up in your pure flock. How did you overcome the problem?

Cheers
Ian

[Tiaris]

I gave the WB birds, their parents & siblings to a friend who wanted & still breeds WB Gouldians. I would never have killed them as they were otherwise top quality birds in good condition. They went someone who appreciated them & are being used to produce more top quality birds.
The thing with recessive mutations is that NOBODY can ever be certain they have a pure flock. It only takes just one split bird somewhere in the ancestry of a flock (even closed flocks) to perpetuate many splits potentially for many years before they are ever revealed as splits. Such a split bird in the ancestry can never be known with certainty. I have known more than a few people who thought they had totally mutation-free collections which later revealed not to be the case. So it really is implausible for anyone to point the finger & say that rampant proliferation of splits is caused by unscrupulous actions of others. As Paintedfiretail's case demonstrates perfectly, many splits are produced totally unwittingly & often by those who adamantly believe they have a totally pure normal flock.

[iaos]

@ Tiaris

Yes there are no guarantees when it comes to recessive mutations. So far so good with my flock, however I have had to add new blood this year from a trusted source, but yes no guarantees. Only problem is I haven't got any young out of the new line this season...

[SamDavis]

@ Tiaris

Yes there are no guarantees when it comes to recessive mutations. So far so good with my flock, however I have had to add new blood this year from a trusted source, but yes no guarantees. Only problem is I haven't got any young out of the new line this season...

In most cases I prefer wild types but I no longer stress when the odd colour mutation appears. Much more important is good health and breeding ability. In the wild coloured birds do appear, so one could argue it's more normal to have the odd split bird in your flock.

[paintedfiretail]

The problem is pf,to get white breasts BOTH parents need to be split to white breast so your hens are not pure and are split to white breast. Craig

If this is so I need to sit down study my records and do some culling.

Every bird related to these hens are possible split white breast. So unless to are going to start from scratch, what you need to do now is actually get yourself a whole lot of white breasted birds and test breed all the stock you intend on keeping. If you breed at least 7 from a test pairing and turn up no WB, the chances that of your stock being split to WB is less than 1%. That would be good enough for me. You can sell all the offspring as split for WB.

sorry iaos thought of having any sort of mutation in my aviarys makes my skin crawl .just need to study records were I go and how assured Iam, if I started with new stock that theres no split hiding in the back ground.
there is no large breeder in Canberra just back yarders like me if I buy to far a feild then I have the problem of building up their hardieness to breed and survive the onslaught of a Canberra winter.