an id idea!

[COUNTRY CAPITAL]

i have been anti leg-rings for my birdkeeping life and am looking for an alternative.
i recall way back finding a poor painted firetail upside down suspended on a twig by his leg-ring and he expired(i purchased him with it and left it on).
has anyone ever tried a permanent marker pen?
could be various colours to indicate sex or year etc.
i was thinking of colouring a toe or so which would be visible upon capture or free in the aviary.maybe even dip the whole foot in food dye or similar.
would it last a season?
would it kill them? hope gecko-danny gets to read this as a medical viewpoint may be beneficial.
sorry for trying to re-invent what already works ok but i plan on a bi-annual "round-up" of youngsters in a large aviary, by which time many young will have coloured to adult making id difficult.
over the years i have seen damage done by rings from broken legs to mere discomfort and was hoping others had an answer/alternative.

[Mr Tino]

Hi and the bird must have the wrong ring size to hang it self,but I have no problem with leg ring when I ring my birds.

Cheer from Mr Tino

[Tiaris]

I don't agree that rings need to be the wrong size to get caught up. I've seen plenty of appropriate sized rings cause death & permanent injury over the years too. Having said that, I still think on balance leg rings are the best form of bird ID for me despite the risk. Ring mishaps are a risk which I accept, as in reality it only affects an extremely small proportion of rung birds.
I think marker pen on toes is likely to be subject to wearing off in fairly short time & would be very difficult to view in a large aviary situation unless you had super flouro bright coloured ink. Would be no good for me anyway - just hitting middle age & eyesight is not what it was a few short years ago.
May be a good option for cabinet/birdroom setups though where birds can be viewed easily at very close quarters, but in my experience serious ring mishaps are far more prevalent in planted/vegetated outdoor aviaries with multiple hazards.

[maz]

scientists in the field use all sorts of different marking techniques on different animals (although on birds they largely use leg rings) some of the ideas from other animals are things like permanent marker (but can wear off or be lost in moult) cutting hairs (might work with birds to cut a section of feathers on different birds but the feathers would have to be cut not pulled so they didn't grow back) and there are other ones too but I can't think of them right now. I remember in my honours using coloured white out and coloured markers to mark the abdomen of bees (yes I spent a week painting tiny little bees) but not much of it was left 6 months later when I retrieved them from the release site.

[fishdance]

I suspect you would need to break the skin for permanent ink to stay. In effect a tattoo. However it's reasonably easy to try a permanent marker externally and see. Could also try some "tie dye" inks too.
In fish I use a passive microchip and hand held scanner. Chip is size of grain of rice. Very similar to cat and dog micro chip s. Each chip is numbered so you need to maintain a database as well.
Winston

[jusdeb]

I use perm marker on my baby parrots when I hand rear so I know who is who .
It usually fades before the feather falls out but is very effective for the short term .

Ive never had an issue with rings on parrots but have had some with the finches , ill fitting or not accidents happen when your so tiny and can get into precarious situations .

[Tiaris]

I shudder when I see perfectly camouflaged wild birds conspicuously adorned with multiple leg rings, radio tracking collars & the like in the name of conservation/study.
Microchips may be only the size of a grain of rice but that equates to the size of a football for a finch.

[jusdeb]

I worry myself about micro chips in small birds , bad enough watching the poochies get one .

[fishdance]

I shudder when I see perfectly camouflaged wild birds conspicuously adorned with multiple leg rings, radio tracking collars & the like in the name of conservation/study.
Microchips may be only the size of a grain of rice but that equates to the size of a football for a finch.

Facial recognition software has come a long way and could be implemented if you have the hardware (cameras) " enough money for development and can market it to gain enough interest.
In meantime, pperhaps permanent marker or fluro paint on beaks might last longer than on legs?

[casehulsebosch]

I shudder when I see perfectly camouflaged wild birds conspicuously adorned with multiple leg rings, radio tracking collars & the like in the name of conservation/study.
Microchips may be only the size of a grain of rice but that equates to the size of a football for a finch.

I will see you at the Gouldian count next year September in Wyndham so Sarah can explain it to you properly Tiaris

Cheers, Case, Tauranga, New Zealand.