Genetic Recombination Sex-linkage

[emmo]

Back to answering the original question - and pardon my ignorance if I am wrong or haven't considered all aspects of the question - but isn't the seagreen mutation of the Red Faced Parrot Finch a sex-linked mutation?

[Tiaris]

Yes.

[TomDeGraaff]

So far: fawn zebras, seagreen rf pfs,

What about these guys: marked white zebras (?), Australian yellow (????)

Also, opaline and ino have recombined on the X ( Z ) chromosome in a number of species such as the lutino-pearl cockatiel.

[Red]

So, my first thought is: what sex-linked mutations are there around in finches?

If you consider canaries finches:

Ivory or Rose
Cinnamon
Agate
Pastel
Satinette

An isabel canary is a cinnamon agate

[TomDeGraaff]

Thanks Red. Canaries are most certainly finches

[Tiaris]

Australian Yellow Gould are autosomal.
Cinnamon Stars, lutino Blue-faced PF, European yellowback Gouldian (dominant) are a few others.

[AMCA26]

Chestnut-flanked White and Cream-backed in Zebras.

[natamambo]

Unfortunately. Officially them sex linked Zebs are called fawn. Cause they look fawn, even if genetically they are cinnamon. So it is not Tom;s fault it is whoever originally named thems fault.
LML

I totally agree FB,but i think the KISS formula applies on this forum as the majority really don't want to know about full depth genetics like Natamambo's post
IMO,sorry Graham.
I have no degree in genetics,but i have learnt the whats what over the many years that i have kept mutations and taken the advice from the previous breeders that i have purchased birds from. Craig

In general I would agree on the KISS here - and my summary is just that. However, the very nature of the original question was very much genetics based. Learning from old timers doesn't always work, which is why most people think lacewing budgies are a single unique mutation. Without an understanding of crossover recombinations there can be no understanding of the inheritance pattern if you wish to seriously breed such birds. There are numerous others already listed here. Putting a cinnamon (see below) and ino bird does not create a lacewing, crossing over must still occur and on the law of averages only 3 in 100 will be lacewing. However equally crossing over can occur the other way, which is why lacewing + lacewing does not always = lacewing. So again, like it or not we must understand this concept in order to fully understand the inheritance patterns.

Now, as it happens lacewing and ino in budgies appeared spontaneously many years apart and in different blood lines. As each is recessive, until (at random) this crossing over appears and puts the genes on the same chromosome at meiosis the two characteristics could not appear together as the birds will always inherit one W from mum and / or one W from dad, each containing either a lace or an ino gene.

I thought lacewing was just a composite of ino and cinnamon that occurs during the meiotic crossover events you described? All three colours are sex linked.

Oops, typo sorry.

[firetail555]

The naming of mutations is an ongoing problem and until those that start off a mutation call them by the correct genetic name for them the problem will continue. The trouble is they often name them before they even know what the inheritance mode of them is. They use the indicative colour as the guide instead, hence "fawn" instead of cinnamon in the zebbies. The Diamond is a sex-linked cinnamon. I started this mutation off and withstood the pressure from others to call them fawn. Fawn and some other colours are also selected as "marketing" tools, the name sounds better. This is also occurring in the Scarlet-chested parrot with a newish mutation being called violet as the birds have mauve colouring in the face. The fact is that they are probably an olive mutation, but that doesnt sound as "sexy" as violet.
David

[Craig52]

[quote="firetail555"]The naming of mutations is an ongoing problem and until those that start off a mutation call them by the correct genetic name for them the problem will continue. The trouble is they often name them before they even know what the inheritance mode of them is. They use the indicative colour as the guide instead, hence "fawn" instead of cinnamon in the zebbies. The Diamond is a sex-linked cinnamon. I started this mutation off and withstood the pressure from others to call them fawn. Fawn and some other colours are also selected as "marketing" tools, the name sounds better.


Thanks David,thats exactly what i was trying to say but this is where it becomes even more complex as there are also autosomal recessive fawn diamonds around,different to look at from the cinnamon and having mainly their back colour fawn.
So those genetico's on here should be explaining the difference between sex linked recessive cinnamon and autosomal recessive fawns,and the others, other than fawn.
Why are we talking about budgie and cockateil mutations on here,especially lacewings,i don't think it is applicable to finches but i do understand that most mutations run the same line in most birds but it's hard to understand if you don't use a finch as an example.
Can anyone explain,in simple terms what the resulting pairings of SLR to normal and AR to normal,i know but others out there could be struggling to understand. Cheers Craig