Aussie Finch Forum

Hi all ,
Just wanting to know if any fellow AFF members grow their own phalaris or have done so in the past ?
Mine is seeding for the first time and I'm just wondering if there a certain stage of its seed development that it should be harvested at ?
I have read articles that indicate it can be toxic .
Here is what I've read ...

Phalaris is a valuable pasture species but occasionally animals suffer toxicity problems. Phalaris contains several dimethylated tryptamine alkaloids and these alkaloids are thought to interfere with the heart, spinal cord and brain. The alkaloid content varies with the pasture’s stage of growth. Young, vigorously growing phalaris is more likely to be toxic. Risk is also higher following a break in the weather. Animals are most at risk when moved onto fresh phalaris after grazing poor quality, low protein feed suchas dry autumn residues. High soil nitrogen, low light intensities within the sward and high temperatures are likely to increase the incidence of toxicity. Sheep are more commonly affected by toxicity problems than cattle. Three types of phalaris poisoning have been identified: Sudden death: This is a cardiac disease and sheep can die within 2-24 hours of being put onto a phalaris pasture. Dead sheep have extended necks and rigid limbs, with some evidence of thrashing before death. Froth and blood stained discharges from the mouth and nose may be present. There is no treatment. Acute nervous disorder: Signs only appear obvious if sheep are disturbed. Sheep appear nervous and walk aimlessly with a high stepping, stiff gait. In severe cases convulsions can occur. Phalaris staggers: Characterised by nervous signs, which persist even when sheep are removed from toxic pastures. Staggers usually occur after long exposure to phalaris, particularly on soils deficient in cobalt. Affected sheep exhibit persistent nodding of the head and weakness in the front legs making them difficult to handle. Treating sheep with cobalt can prevent this form of poisoning but it will not cure affected sheep or prevent other forms.

Now I know this is for cattle and sheep grazing on the grass itself but is there risk of toxicity with the seed heads ?
Any help would be greatly appreciated .
Cheers ,
Brad

Hi Brad,i have never tried feeding green heads of phalaris to my birds,TG after reading that why would you but i do feed a lot of mature phalaris seed to my birds which they relish.It seems that it is only toxic at the green stage,whether it is seed heads or the plant its self but as stock are eating it i would say the plant is.
IMO,cut the ripe seed heads and stalk off and hang them upside down in a bag for a while and feed the the dropped seed OR go out and buy some phalaris seed and feed it sparingly,a little bit goes a long way and there's no stuffing around with it. Craig

Thanks for responding Craig ,
Yes I am thinking along the same lines , to just harvest when ripe then dry it and then feed it out either like millet sprays or in a separate dish ... last thing I need now that I've built up my collection is to wipe it out with unripe phalaris seed .
Ill probably do away with the grass itself now , it just doesn't seem worth the risk , nor the effort of growing the stuff .
Brad

I know you're not really talking of Canary seed but it's very closely related. I've been growing/feeding green and dry canary seed heads for a few years without any problems I'm aware of. Which species of Phalaris are we talking about? The following link indicates species (or cultivars) with very low/minimal toxicity in the early stage of growth and that are then well suited to sheep/cattle fodder - http://www.heritageseeds.com.au/product ... /phalaris/

I have large clumps of Phalaris growing in my aviary and the birds strip it as fast as the plant is seeding.
Over many years I have dug up large clumps and transplanted them for nesting sites and green feed.
The problem seems to be if there is only one type of seeding heads available it may cause problems.
I am careful about feeding too much Johnston Grass to my Parrot Finches as I feel that too much of that could be Toxic.
Like most things, in moderation and give the birds an alternative green food.

Thanks for the link Sam .
I believe the cultivar that I grow is very similar to the Australia 2 , it grows upright and is reedy looking . I will take a picture tomorrow for reference .
I too feed plain canary seed heads when in season with no problem , infact it is relished by the Diamonds and Crims when half ripe .
Any chance of a picture of your phalaris cultivar for comparison E Orix ?
I used Johnson last season but found it was completely ignored over the other greens I made available to the colony , it was only taken if nothing else was available so I abandoned its use .
My colony has ready access to many different seeding grasses ie ; several panic grass varieties , guinea palm grass , veldt oats , panic veldt , swamp grasses , windmill grass , finch mix all in pots ... the list goes on
I recently acquired guinea grass also thanks to a fellow AFF memeber .
Each species has its own preference I have noticed but all take bits and pieces of each grass type .

Hello Brad,

Did a bit of a google search, as I am sure you did as well, and found nothing about toxicity in birds.

All of the identified problems relate to ruminants, particularly sheep. It would seem that the toxic chemicals are alkaloids and the highest risk is with the rapidly growing new leaves.
Given that the seeding heads are produced some time after this, I doubt they pose much of a risk.
Particularly as they would make up only a small part of the birds diet.
Perhaps someone can do a test run

It is always nice to get evidence that things are safe.
I remember when researching Levamisole, I came across an article warning against its use in elephants as it is highly dangerous to use in this species.
It shows how different species can handle drugs/chemical in unpredictable ways.

Cheers
Brett

Gday Brett ,
Funny enough the birds took it upon themselves to trial the seed heads in the unripe stage yesterday as I inadvertently placed the phalaris too close to the aviary and the arvo sea breeze pushed the grass and seed heads onto the wire .
The WH Nuns and Diamonds shredded 2 seed heads and ate the ends of the grass blade tips .... Zero fatalities so I'm guessing its safe
I have also read something along the lines of toxicity being increased if the grass grows in a nitrogen rich soil ???
As you mentioned it is strange the way certain chemical compounds , whether in grasses , veg and man made products , affect animals in different ways .... what is edible to one , is a death sentence to another !
Still , I shall feed the heads only sparingly over summer as I'll have more than enough variety in grass heads to avoid an increased risk of toxicity , if there is a risk at all
Brad

I thought I'd tack onto this thread since my query relates to homegrown phalaris.
I have both the "wild" phalaris and plain canary gone to seed.
When do I feed it?
Is it after the yellow pollen is finished? Is it before? I can't say that I can tell because I tend to throw a mixture into the birds.
I'm thinking I should be more economical with the seeding heads and only give what is ready to be eaten.

Tom that's a good question but mine is regarding green pannic veldt and guinea grass.I find with the guinea grass that most attack it coming out of the sheath but don't touch it when flowering and when it is mature are not fussed about it but eat it if that's all they have.
With the green pannic they tend to relish it at any stage and tends to be their very favourite green seed,easy to get at compared to phalaris and canary heads of which the seeds need to be extracted from the close knit heads,in other words i don't use it and prefer to soak/sprout canary seed and phalaris seed.
So i feed green pannic,guinea grass and frozen green white millet with the later mixed in with my frozen chitted seed.
I have a problem where i am alergic to the pollen of the above two seeds heads so i can only pick it at a certain stage,coming out of the sheath or at mature stage so i tend to rely on sprouted seed and green milk FWM most of the year when seeding grasses are flowering.I don't see much difference to the latter and seeding grasses and if picking seeding grasses is going to affect my health i have to rely on sprouted/frozen FWM. Craig