I was recently on another site just looking around when I came across an article on pintails in the wild in San Diego. Where they think perhaps the host is actually the spice finch.
http://www.sandiegobirding.com/?p=2801
It got me thinking has anyone ever tried to breed them under different birds, I saw a post which had a few people say they had heard of it on the odd occasion but has anyone actually had a different bird as the sole program for their pintails or tried 3 pairs with different hosts for all of them. I understand its a bit of a touchy subject because people are doing a great job of breeding them in the natural wild way and why change it but it just got me a bit curious as to whether people think that the domesticated strain here could be transformed to being bred with other birds in the future. I'm also not saying its something that should be changed in no way at all its actually just fascinating that it potentially does and I guess could occur
Matt
Pintailed Whydah hosts
- GregH
- ...............................
- Posts: 1671
- Joined: 17 Feb 2009, 08:20
- Location: Brisbane
- Location: Chapel Hill, Brisbane Qld
An interesting proposition if true. Is host selection controlled by nature (genetics) or nurture (learning) or a bit of both? I can imagine if whydah eggs were placed under something more insectivorous than a spice finch they might be more likely to be successfully fostered and so become imprinted on the new host and go on to choose them when they mature. I'm not advocating the experiment but it might be interesting for the exotic/feral threat people to consider funding an experiment; St Helenas look vaguely similar to red brows so they might be a good species try as an alternate host. Of course if it worked they's ban whydas in case they escaped as has happened in Califoria where apparently they adapted to a new host.
- E Orix
- ...............................
- Posts: 2740
- Joined: 29 May 2009, 23:30
- Location: Howlong on NSW/Vic Border 30km from Albury
- Location: Howlong NSW
Firstly there are wild Common Waxbills that have established themselves in Hawaii.
I have been breeding Pintail Whydahs for the last 25 years, they have always been run in a mixed collection and in that time
to my knowledge not one young Pintail has been rear under anything except Saint Helena Waxbills
In those aviaries we have housed Sydney Waxbills without any success.
I wish they did as it would make it a lot easier.
I have been breeding Pintail Whydahs for the last 25 years, they have always been run in a mixed collection and in that time
to my knowledge not one young Pintail has been rear under anything except Saint Helena Waxbills
In those aviaries we have housed Sydney Waxbills without any success.
I wish they did as it would make it a lot easier.
- Tiaris
- ...............................
- Posts: 3517
- Joined: 23 Apr 2011, 08:48
- Location: Coffs Harbour
In the wild they use Saint Helenas and Senegals (Black-rumped waxbill). In captivity most breeders use Saint Helenas. Spice finches would never be a natural host for them as their natural ranges don't coincide. I know breeders who have had them successfully reared under Tri-coloured Nuns and Orange breasts on more than one occasion. I know of another one-off rearing under Black-throated Finches.
- E Orix
- ...............................
- Posts: 2740
- Joined: 29 May 2009, 23:30
- Location: Howlong on NSW/Vic Border 30km from Albury
- Location: Howlong NSW
There was a person just north of Sydney who said he used Tri Nuns to rear them. I spoke to him about it and still have my doubts
but that is only my opinion. Some of his stock came from here.
There are a couple of reasons why, I doubt if a young Pintail could compete with a young Tri Nun. While a young Pintail is very adaptable
they would be pushed aside.
Their feeding method is also slightly different to non waxbill types.
The young Pintail once out the nest will beg for food from any small finch that lands near it, which looks like it was reared by them.
This season I ran a colony of some 30 Tri Nuns in my big aviary and in excess of 15 young Pintails were fledged, all by the normal
hoste specie St Helena.
I have found their eggs in other birds nests but as yet non have been reared.
I guess if there are no normal hoste specie available then the female Pintails will lay in any nest.
but the success rate would be small.
but that is only my opinion. Some of his stock came from here.
There are a couple of reasons why, I doubt if a young Pintail could compete with a young Tri Nun. While a young Pintail is very adaptable
they would be pushed aside.
Their feeding method is also slightly different to non waxbill types.
The young Pintail once out the nest will beg for food from any small finch that lands near it, which looks like it was reared by them.
This season I ran a colony of some 30 Tri Nuns in my big aviary and in excess of 15 young Pintails were fledged, all by the normal
hoste specie St Helena.
I have found their eggs in other birds nests but as yet non have been reared.
I guess if there are no normal hoste specie available then the female Pintails will lay in any nest.
but the success rate would be small.
- Tiaris
- ...............................
- Posts: 3517
- Joined: 23 Apr 2011, 08:48
- Location: Coffs Harbour
The 2 breeders who have both told me they have had them reared under Tri Nuns were from Wauchope and Nambucca Heads & both are honest blokes. Entirely "accidental" but happened several times in the aviaries of one of them. I'm not trying to suggest that any other species would be better suited as hosts than are Saints, just answering the original question. I have previously had Tri-Nuns successfully rear Red-faced Parrot-finches and Aberdeens among their own progeny so don't at all doubt that they would feed any fostered young well.
- SamDavis
- ...............................
- Posts: 2578
- Joined: 03 Jan 2011, 14:01
- Location: Douglas Park NSW
I really wish I had some first hand experience to add to this thread - hopefully later this year!
I just had a nest of 4 Saints fledge from a Longtail nest which I thought most unusual. I mention this as one might therefore infer that Longtails may raise pintails.
I just had a nest of 4 Saints fledge from a Longtail nest which I thought most unusual. I mention this as one might therefore infer that Longtails may raise pintails.
- mccabe_07
- ...............................
- Posts: 63
- Joined: 31 Jul 2012, 22:34
- Location: Canberra
Sorry I wasn't saying that the spice finch is the natural host in the wild I was just referring to the article where they suspect the escapee birds in San Diego are using the spice finches there as a host and the numbers are increasing.
The question was very much so related to un-natural breeding of them if anyone had tried it. I don't believe putting them in a mixed aviary is trying it because at the end of the day the birds have natural instincts and I'm not saying it should be tried either because it is a big risk to trial expensive and not overly common birds in this manner as well as changing something that works and is a natural way of life. But if it had been trialled properly it would have been interesting to find out what type of finches were chosen, why and if they compared it to another pair breeding with saints.
It was more so just me coming across the article and finding it interesting to know. As it is interesting to hear of Tri Nuns as well, I wouldn't have picked it. Even the longtails and saints is a good one Sam. Maybe the pintails need to catch onto what the saints have done or perhaps the saints realised what the pintails were trying to do and thought isn't this much easier instead of raising our own![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.png)
The question was very much so related to un-natural breeding of them if anyone had tried it. I don't believe putting them in a mixed aviary is trying it because at the end of the day the birds have natural instincts and I'm not saying it should be tried either because it is a big risk to trial expensive and not overly common birds in this manner as well as changing something that works and is a natural way of life. But if it had been trialled properly it would have been interesting to find out what type of finches were chosen, why and if they compared it to another pair breeding with saints.
It was more so just me coming across the article and finding it interesting to know. As it is interesting to hear of Tri Nuns as well, I wouldn't have picked it. Even the longtails and saints is a good one Sam. Maybe the pintails need to catch onto what the saints have done or perhaps the saints realised what the pintails were trying to do and thought isn't this much easier instead of raising our own
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.png)
- E Orix
- ...............................
- Posts: 2740
- Joined: 29 May 2009, 23:30
- Location: Howlong on NSW/Vic Border 30km from Albury
- Location: Howlong NSW
The only reason I question these reports on Pintails not using their normal host is that most are 2nd/3rd+hand reports.
Tiaras, your report seems to be so with regard Tri Nuns if the two breeders are as reputable as you say.
The person I mentioned lived south of those people but close enough to have maybe the same stock.
It's quite possible they have adapted as acceptable hosts.
My situation and a couple other mates down here may not have experienced non host species being used as we run a large amount of host specie
with the breeding Pintails. With the extra host nests available may be the reason.
Tiaras, your report seems to be so with regard Tri Nuns if the two breeders are as reputable as you say.
The person I mentioned lived south of those people but close enough to have maybe the same stock.
It's quite possible they have adapted as acceptable hosts.
My situation and a couple other mates down here may not have experienced non host species being used as we run a large amount of host specie
with the breeding Pintails. With the extra host nests available may be the reason.