Aussie Finch Forum

Hello,

I need someone to explain to me the positives of inbreeding animals, specifically birds. From just a very short and general idea that I got from a animal rights group is that, in this case- tigers, were inbred to achieve the white tiger.

So, for all the canary colors is this true that new mutations occurred due to inbreeding or was it simply the fax that human intervention has caused those birds with mutations to survive without inbreeding?

Please answer as fully as you possibly can.

Thank you

Hi Tailfeathers,

Inbreeding is often needed when a new mutation is trying to be established. IMO inbreeding should only be extended to father/daughter or mother/son, never brother/sister....although if your from Tassie all bets are off (only joking I love my Tassie cousins!!!)

Once the mutation is established it is essential to outcross to as many different bloodlines as possible and then bring the breeding back to the colored mutation swapping these bloodlines.

From a longevity point of view it is also important to outcross on a regular basis to maintain the strength of the colored bird.

I hope that gives you some assistance.

Cheers
Paul

IMO inbreeding need only occur when there is absolutely no other option available. ie. the last remaining birds of a species are related so no other option is available.
When establishing a new mutation or mutation combination I use outbreeding right from the first generation and regularly thereafter. That way later remedial outcrossing to address inherent problems resulting from earlier inbreeding is largely unnecessary & the new mutation is a far better offering to aviculture. It certainly requires more patience and a longer term plan but far more worthwhile in the long-run. Outbreeding using the best available outcrosses generally results in a far better quality bird once established.

So when does a mutation actually occur? Is it randomness or is it a result of inbreeding?

Can be as a result of many things. Most mutations don't necessarily occur due to inbreeding. Numerous environmental factors can also cause genes to alter (mutate). Inbreeding can cause existing hidden mutation genes to express themselves in progeny as two related animals are both more likely to carry the same hidden (split) genes. Inbreeding doesn't of itself necessarily cause the actual mutation though.

To answer your last question first. A mutation is the result of a random act, that is a little more often seen expressed in those groups of critters that are inbred, for the simple fact that it will probably be recessive and show up only when two critters with the same gene breed together.
To answer your opening question. Generally not. But in nature the mate a creature picks is the nearest and most available one. Usually a relo. Because the dominant male chases his sons off, but they don't go further away than they have to, so their mates are the neighbours daughters, and then the same next season. So they are related. Oh yes and thats how people did it in the old days too. Go find a nice lass in the next village. Probably the same village your dad found your mum in.
I do believe in being careful about inbreeding, but I am a realist.
LML

You can't create something from nothing

You can't produce a mutation by inbreeding within a flock where no mutant gene exists

The myth that mutations are caused by inbreeding came about because closely related birds will carry the same hidden mutant gene . . IF . . AND ONLY IF . . that mutant gene exists and was inherited from a common antecedent

The inbreeding only allows the mutant genes to 'find' each other, and produce a 'coloured' bird from 'uncoloured' parents

You can inbreed until your nose bleeds . . but if no hidden mutant genes exist in those birds, no mutations will be forthcoming

So as Tiaris has pointed out inbreeding is a 'last resort' measure


PS . . propaganda from any source: animal rights or finch fora, should be carefully considered

Totally away from the scientific reasoning.

I have seen a number of white mutations occur in the wild, including snakes, lizards, kangaroos, whales, birds, and fish to name a few. Some are due to mutations, and some are albino (lack of melanin). Some may be due to inbreeding and some are mutations.

I believe that most new colours in birds from finches to canaries to budgies and parrots have been the result of new mutations, often caused by inbreeding, either to obtain a new colour, or once a new colour has been achieved to maintain the new colour.

Canary breeders have been trying to breed black canaries for years. Whilst I have seen a photo of one, it has not been developed into a strain, or common colour.

Regarding your question, Inbeeding - Yes or No?, it depends what you are trying to achieve. Inbreeding is how many of the top canary breeders maintain their line of birds. For many Linebreeding is a form of Inbreeding, just that Linebreeding sounds better. Many people think of Inbeeding as brother to sister, and Linebreeding as Grandfather to Grandaughter or Uncle to Niece, which are both still Inbreeding.

Canary wrote:Totally away from the scientific reasoning.

.

Okay

I agree with Canary about the definition of Line breeding. Ive had experience with both dog and birds and in both fields Ive found line breeding is very subjective, its all about where each person draws the line before it becomes In breeding.....to them.