Mcgilvray and Lofty

Normal and lesser Red Browed.
Includes Species Profile.
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crazy cuban
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Do these 2 subspecies exist in captivity? Or have they been crossbred with the other subspecies too much they are no longer distinguishable from the nominate race?
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Tiaris
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They do both exist in captivity but Macgillivrayi as originally classified over a century ago is not what is being sold or depicted in aviculture to be that "form". The ones in captivity are subspecies intergrades between minor & temporalis, however the original attempt at classification was based on specimens taken from the Jardine River, which is at the northern part of minor's range and displayed exaggerated minor features & are from nowhere near the alleged southern confluence of minor & temporalis. I believe most of those "Macgillivrayi" birds in captivity originated from captive bred subspecies hybrids rather than any wild intermediate form. Not many loftyi that I know of in captivity at all.
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Craig52
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Tiaris wrote:They do both exist in captivity but Macgillivrayi as originally classified over a century ago is not what is being sold or depicted in aviculture to be that "form". The ones in captivity are subspecies intergrades between minor & temporalis, however the original attempt at classification was based on specimens taken from the Jardine River, which is at the northern part of minor's range and displayed exaggerated minor features & are from nowhere near the alleged southern confluence of minor & temporalis. I believe most of those "Macgillivrayi" birds in captivity originated from captive bred subspecies hybrids rather than any wild intermediate form. Not many loftyi that I know of in captivity at all.
Tend to agree with Tiaris regarding Macgillivrayi being crossed subspecies with the lesser redbrow in aviaries today.There are a few breeders in SA with loftyi,being where they come from but to me they are a very olive coloured bird.In another topic i had the theory of southern Red brows being much duller in colour due to much lower temperatures but as they move North their colours lighten considerably. Craig
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Tiaris
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Yes Craig, you're right with the duller south brighter north thing, also bigger south & smaller north at the same time. Plenty of examples including Redbrows + Crimson & Eastern Rosella groups, King Parrots, Doublebars, Superb Wrens, Crimson Finch, Grey Fantail, Red-backed Wren, etc.etc.
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crazy cuban
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So Mcgilvray's are now merely a 'hybrid' of the two subspecies? And Loftyi are really only seen in SA avairies?
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Tiaris
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IMO Macgillivrayi in captivity were only ever subspecies hybrids. The real deal of this form (wild birds from the Jardine River area) were claimed to have racial variant status by virtue of their exaggerated small size, pale gold back & whitish front, intense vermillion red on brow & tail coverts & black vent on males - all very much notable minor (lesser) features.
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iaos
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Tiaris, do you know how many specimens the subspecies was described from and how recently people have seen at it?

Cheers Ian
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TomDeGraaff
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Craig52 wrote:Tend to agree with Tiaris regarding Macgillivrayi being crossed subspecies with the lesser redbrow in aviaries today.There are a few breeders in SA with loftyi,being where they come from but to me they are a very olive coloured bird.In another topic i had the theory of southern Red brows being much duller in colour due to much lower temperatures but as they move North their colours lighten considerably. Craig
Related to your ideas, Craig:

Gloger's Rule: subspecies from the less humid part of a species' range tend to be lighter in colour.
Bergmann's Rule: subspecies from the colder part of a species' range tend to be bigger in body mass.

Can't vouch for the accuracy but they are open to exceptions like all rules. Reference: Immelmann's Australian Parakeets 1962
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Craig52
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iaos wrote:Tiaris, do you know how many specimens the subspecies was described from and how recently people have seen at it?

Cheers Ian
I was shown what were supposed to be Macgillivray's in an aviary in Lismore NSW,i had a chuckle to myself as i had seen better coloured redbrows in the wild in Victoria.This breeder payed big money for these birds.
I believe the lesser in my avatar is a good example of what a Macgillivray was supposed to look like,that lesser is around 3/4 of the size of a regular redbrow. Craig
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Craig52
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Uraeginthus wrote:
Craig52 wrote:Tend to agree with Tiaris regarding Macgillivrayi being crossed subspecies with the lesser redbrow in aviaries today.There are a few breeders in SA with loftyi,being where they come from but to me they are a very olive coloured bird.In another topic i had the theory of southern Red brows being much duller in colour due to much lower temperatures but as they move North their colours lighten considerably. Craig
Related to your ideas, Craig:

Gloger's Rule: subspecies from the less humid part of a species' range tend to be lighter in colour.
Bergmann's Rule: subspecies from the colder part of a species' range tend to be bigger in body mass.

Can't vouch for the accuracy but they are open to exceptions like all rules. Reference: Immelmann's Australian Parakeets 1962
I can't agree with Glogers Rule as the further North you go the more humid it becomes and the lighter plumaged birds are in the far North (finches).
Bergmann's Rule is correct as body mass will keep a finch warmer in the cold and also darker plumage absorbs heat more efficiantly. Craig
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