Hybrid article - Thanks Tom

[Tiaris]

Good article Tom. Thanks.
Thanks to Diane for the Newsletter too.

[TomDeGraaff]

Thanks Tiaris. Not your normal bird article

[Myzomela]

Excellent article Tom and a topic that has been skirted around for some time but not directly addressed until now.
Thanks in particular for addressing the "breeds" vs "species" issue, and many of the fallacies that hybrid breeders put forward to justify what they do.
It is a clever marketing strategy to give these hybrids their own names e.g. "Milligold" macaw- Millitary x Blue and Gold macaw- which immediately confers a degree of credibility to them.

[TomDeGraaff]

A tiny but important word escaped when I was typing this article.
The last sentence under the Bengalese, should read "In fact, our stocks do NOT have the more recent hybrid events..."

Apologies
Tom
PS If anyone wants to reprint it, please contact me.

Tom

[Diane]

All fixed Tom, I just altered the article and reloaded the newsletter in the server, it should read correctly now.

[TomDeGraaff]

Thanks, Diane.
You're the best

[BluJay]

Good article.

[Blue Cuban]

I only read this on Sunday and then on Monday I go to a bird shop and they are selling corellas x galahs.

I ask did you guys breed these? "yes" replied the shop worker.
Then I asked where they breed on purpose? "yes" replied the shop worker.

I didn't feel the need to ask why becuase I didn't believe there was a good enough reason if you was only going to sell them to the public.

With this article fresh in mind I was filled with mixed emotions.

I must add this bird shop always has good healthy birds and their coustomer service is first class, before and after sale.

Rich.

[Nye]

Just read that article by Tom. Good job Tom. There were a number of articles written in a commercial bird magazine, that I no longer subscribe too. The articles, written by the breeder, described how he crossed his lutino Rainbow with the Buru Red lorry to get the lutino across. The other was about a professional Mutation Alex breeder & how he crossed the Indian ring-necks in to get his mutations. And there were others. There were no published objections to the the articles, I should have written in to the editor, but I was just as complacent as every other reader with a concern. But strangely articles with regard to finches in that same magazine focused on purity of the specie,Hybridizing a big no no. So I voted with my feet or should I say hip pocket and didn't renew my subscription to that magazine. But there is a big question that needs to be addressed as to the purity of the finches and seed-eaters we have in Australia. Are the guys with some very rare finches going to fess up to out crossing to a closely related specie. If i were looking for say an Aberdeen whats the likelihood that that bird has cutthroat genes? or a Himalayan green finch with Oriental green finch genes,or even an Oriental green finch with European green finch genes. So what I am trying to say is that hybridizing birds just to get a new mutation for monetary gain is just wrong . But to save a specie of bird from extinction in Australian captivity, I think has merit if done the right way and by the right way I mean culling whatever doesn't look right, because i don't think we will be getting any new legal imports of finches & seed-eaters anytime soon. So if a bird looks like a cross it should be culled If you are breeding birds that are producing young that don't look like like their parents and look like a hybrid when fully molted I would be going back to the person i bought them from . So buyer beware and for the seller be upfront and honest about your birds.

[TomDeGraaff]

Thanks heaps for the compliments, Nye.

I get your point about rare species but I am a bit of a purist, rightly or wrongly!
Some say blue caps owe there presence here to red-cheeked cordons yet others say the cross is sterile. No one truely knows or would own up, I suppose.

Javan munias, the pytilias, Aberdeens etc are all scarce and/or maybe host to foreign genes. I can only stress the point that I made under the red factor canary, the genetic effect of hybrids on a small population would be quite large compared to a large domesticated population like the canary.

There was a scheme once to mate the last Edwards pheasant(s) with Swinhoes, I believe. There are two sides to this coin: adding genes to the Edward's gene pool but also the polluting of the other species' gene pool. Amongst us, there would no doubt be no mating of hybrids out to the commoner species but are we all like that? What do we do with the ones that don't pass muster? In trying to save the Forest Fody, are we undermining the Madagascar? What of Javan peafowl?

Eggs are imo more likely to come into the country in future anyway so what would happen to those pheasant crosses then? Some would cut their losses and sell, sell, sell! That, of course, would not help finches much! I would say that if someone were to embark on a hybridisation programme, they would want to keep it "in-house" and release nothing that can throw back or cause suspicion to buyers until they were certain. People like me might complain!! You see, while I'd love to keep and breed these birds, knowing that they are safe in aviculture overseas gives me hope that new stock may one day arrive to bolster the pure birds, not crosses.

I don't think I would be happy with crosses.In some cases like green singers, the larger fellow, a seedeater by name I think, was absorbed into the gene pool. What's done is done, I suppose. Can anyone cast light on these issues or please correct me if you feel I have any facts wrong?

Anyway, your opinion is just as valid as mine! Thanks again!
Tom