Bush Gouldians

[finchbreeder]

And as soon as they hatch in captivity they are domestic? Or so I would have thought.
LML

[vettepilot_6]

Yes and no. The trick with Bush anything is to appreciate them for what they are and to keep them together. That and to cull them indiscriminately. As soon as they are paired to a mutation or the domesticated version they are immediately lost.

Still in an artificial environment. ..so unless you are continually adding more wild ones they are no longer bush goulds IMO

[Gouldian 3]

That's the same as saying that there's zero difference between an Exhibition Budgerigar and a Bush Budgerigar - the Bush Budgerigar should look and behave as close to a wild caught Budgerigar as possible. Personally, my only motivation for keeping and breeding Gouldian Finches is to physically improve them as much as possible. So keeping and breeding Bush Gouldians is of zero interest to me. However, it would still be nice to know that they are out there and available to anyone interested in them in the future.

[vettepilot_6]

Dont we all...although I am one of the few that doesn't keep mutations at all..if by accident they appear they are on sold as well as all relatives...on a side note it will be interesting to see what Peri will come up with regarding the feathers I have sent her for gene testing. ...

[Tiaris]

I strongly agree that if available a bush strain should be continued/preserved in captivity & I see this as a completely different bird to a normal (non mutation) genotype domesticated Gouldian. I know with "bush" zebra finches I had up until fairly recently, they had not only different physiology to the majority of domesticated specimens of their species but also entirely different breeding biology and behaviour compared to the domesticated show varieties of the same species including show versions of "Normal Grey" with no split mutation genes. The bush Zebs I had were obviously much smaller but also far more seasonal in their breeding, mostly only laid 3-4 eggs per clutch and mostly had just 2 clutches per year. I obtained them from a bloke who had bred them for many generations and I then bred them for several generations myself & they continued with the "non-domesticated" breeding behaviour for the few years I had them.
I believe that my current Gouldian stock are mutation free, but I am not 100% certain of it and I won't guarantee that to be the case as I can't possibly absolutely know that to be true. However, I do know that my birds are very different to pure wild-type ("bush") Gouldians in many physiological (size, body shape/proportions, colour attributes and some aspects of feather structure) and behavioural (flocking instinct, predator awareness, seasonal breeding, nesting & brooding behaviour, diet preferences, etc.) ways due to unnatural (my own) selection of breeding stock for features which nature shows absolutely no selective pressure for over many generations.
I reckon any different forms (natural & man-propagated) of the species we keep are worthy of preservation as separate captive populations if we have the opportunity to do so as their ongoing availability can only add to our overall understanding of the species we breed and enjoy.

[Blue Cuban]

Yes and no. The trick with Bush anything is to appreciate them for what they are and to keep them together. That and to cull them indiscriminately. As soon as they are paired to a mutation or the domesticated version they are immediately lost.

Still in an artificial environment. ..so unless you are continually adding more wild ones they are no longer bush goulds IMO

Hit the nail on the head.

[Tiaris]

If they look and behave different to the domesticated strains you can call them what you like, but that difference is surely worth preserving in captivity however artificial captivity may be.

[Blue Cuban]

If they look and behave different to the domesticated strains you can call them what you like, but that difference is surely worth preserving in captivity however artificial captivity may be.

But you must agree that unless you have a massive aviary (and I do mean massive) that is self sustaining preserving the "Bush Gouldian" look and behaviour would be near impossible there for defaulting back to a domesticate Gouldian.

I recognise that I could be punching above my weight talking about "Bush Gouldian's" considering I've never seen one and all experience I speak on comes from domesticated birds but history and science has proven what ever man has caged the animal changes in behaviour and if they are dependant on us for food/water your birds are destined to physically change as well.

I certainly agree with preserving these birds but I do feel that we are fighting a loosing battle because while we place limits on these birds (the housing we put them in along with restricted food sources) the only thing we will be preserving is the gene pool and then mutations can spontaneously appear. As for preserving their behaviour and looks this all begins to change the minute we impose restrictions on them unless you can house them with no limitations to anything just as they are in the wild.

[E Orix]

Once a specie is put in an alien place they will start changing.
But they do retain some of the inbuilt habits(for want of a better word)
I bred tree sparrows to 7 generations, while they bred freely the last generation were still as wild as the original stock.
I have a water system which birds will freely bath in. Birds from different countries can bath differently, Australian and African species tend to stand on the edge and flip water around(I presume inbuilt fear of water predators)Yet Asian and European Finches will just wade into the water and have a very extensive bath. Yet in a short time we have noticed that the African and Australian species starting to copy say the Tri Coloured Munias and actually getting into the bathing area and not just the edge.
Some of my Gouldians are kept in a large planted flight approx. 30mx19m, I have two separate groups that will only mingle together if I throw grain on the ground and all birds will feed in the same area. Also in non breeding season I have noticed that the birds will often flock with multiple species feeding and flying together.
As for my Gouldians, I can't say exactly when the parents stop sitting their chicks but my birds have different structures.
They will breed at an early stage,often when only showing minimal colour, they will breed all year round if enough food is available.
Because of the constant breeding the adult birds are just about worn out in a season and are left to enjoy their retirement,
When the chicks fledge you can just about guarantee that all chicks will fledge to a perch and not spend days on the aviary floor.
The cockbirds continually pick beaks full of soft grass about 50mm long for nest lining. So much so that unless a box is emptied after chicks fledge the next round the chicks will be pushed to the top of the box as it will be full of nesting material. I occasionally get a big clutch out but generally they seem to fledge and rear 4 chicks. My concern is it is about 5 years since they came here and I haven't put a new bird into the flocks.
What eventually happens I am not sure as yet. I did get some nice black heads from a forum member but in the end I was advised not to use them.
I guess time will tell.

[Tiaris]

As for preserving their behaviour and looks this all begins to change the minute we impose restrictions on them unless you can house them with no limitations to anything just as they are in the wild.

It only changes when we select over time for features which divert away from those they already exhibit.
Bush budgies & Zebra finches maintain their marked difference to long-term domestic strains for as many generations as they are not selected for similar features to the bigger boof-headed versions. I see no reason why the differences within this Gouldian population couldn't be similarly preserved under even the most unnatural of captive environments, notwithstanding E. Orix's reference to the eventual need for fresh blood to maintain the genetic viability of the population. But in the short/medium term it should be entirely feasible to keep them going well and true to type as long as that is the goal of their breeder(s).