exotic species triage...

An area to ask about species that are not Native to Australia.
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collector_and_buyer
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Craig52,you said that you and another member 'eventually' bred some Bluecaps etc with alternative livefood methods.It would be interesting to know how long this took and how successful this was in regards to clutch size,how many times parents went down etc.You may have the experience etc to try this,but less experienced breeders will have trouble trying to emulate what you have stated.Any breeding opportunities lost during the attempted conversion stage cannot be regained and this would be a shame.It is totally prooven that certain species do best on termites and if you can't provide that because you live in he city or for whatever reason,look for another species or source out young birds that have been successfully reared on alternatives.In regards to your birds failings due to the harsh climatic conditions,maybe they should not have been subjected to this in the beginning.imo.
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toothlessjaws
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Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Location: melbourne

Craig52 wrote:I personally and another breeder in Melbourne together eventually bred bluecaps on bushfly maggots in good numbers but it was a challenge as the maggot needed to be cleaned out totally for a few days in dry bran to stop scouring in the young bluecaps and it worked well.
Hey Craig, would you mind explaining "scouring" for me? Is this some sort of a bacterial infection from the maggots? I often wonder how long I need to "clean" out the maggots for. I find they don't grow well in dry mix and desiccate or very quickly pupate.
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finchbreeder
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Location: Midwest of West. Aust. Coast
Location: Midwest of West.Aust.Coast

I'm pretty sure that scouring in birds = diarea in humans. :worry:
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toothlessjaws
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Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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Tiaris wrote: Melbas also love & breed quite well on crickets so a bit of lateral thinking & experimenting may be required.
Thanks for the tip Tiaris. I bought a pair of Melbas to see if i could try my luck on maggots. I've had no such luck but i did feed them some pin head crickets once as a treat and noticed their keen interest. i might give this a proper go. I have bread crickets before back when i had pet frogs. no harder than flies, from memory they just take so long to grow!
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Craig52
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toothlessjaws wrote:
Craig52 wrote:I personally and another breeder in Melbourne together eventually bred bluecaps on bushfly maggots in good numbers but it was a challenge as the maggot needed to be cleaned out totally for a few days in dry bran to stop scouring in the young bluecaps and it worked well.
Hey Craig, would you mind explaining "scouring" for me? Is this some sort of a bacterial infection from the maggots? I often wonder how long I need to "clean" out the maggots for. I find they don't grow well in dry mix and desiccate or very quickly pupate.
TJ, scouring is a type of diarrhea in birds. We both were breeding bluecaps using termites in the early stage, the mate was colony breeding his in a large aviary which included other species and i had mine set up in single prs in smaller aviaries on their own.
He found that his blue caps were eating heaps of bushfly maggots as well as termites supplied and suggested that we try to convert them to bushfly maggots only so he could cut back on feeding termites because of the hard work to get them and to stop our nagging wives comments that our homes where going to be demolished by these termites.
We started by mixing termites and BFM's in the same container and slowly over quite a few months reduced the termite supply until there was only BFM's but still fed out in the termite crumble/dust.
It worked well,they went to nest and hatched young and bought them right up to juvenile feather stage but when they left the nest their bums and tail feathers were coated with white gunk and they dropped to the floor as the couldn't fly. We were both catching up young and washing them with warm water and blow drying them. After this they seemed to be ok, for some reason it never effected the breeding birds or any other species that had fledged young just on BFM's.
Anyway, we decided to clean out our BFM's longer than the usual day or so in fresh dry bran,probably two days or so instead and this had a major effect to the scouring with the young emerging clean.
Till this day i still grow my maggots out in a similar medium used in the fly cage in a kitty litter tray which is all eaten over night, the next day when the mix has turned brown and dry the maggots are sieved out and placed in fresh DRY bran and stored in my bird room refrigerator on the highest temp or No1 on the dial.The maggots don't pupae or die, they evacuate their gut and become dormant. When fed out to the birds it only takes a minute or two and they full of life, clean ready to eat. I know i don't have to do this for species other than bluecaps but hard times never die with me or it's just me stuck in my own little world.
I did a four page article on this very subject in ASA journal in the 90's,it brings back memories of the bluecap day's. :eh: Sorry about the manuscript. Craig
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starman
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Craig52 wrote:I did a four page article on this very subject in ASA journal in the 90's,it brings back memories of the bluecap day's.
Graig, is there any way of accessing that article? A link perhaps?

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Craig52
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I'm sure there is an archives section in the Avicultural Society of Australia web site www.birds.org.au . It may have been between 1997 and 2000 plus. Also search my mates name Kevin Western. Craig
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Tiaris
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A well-known breeder on the NSW south coast did a similar phased termite - maggot transition with Bluecaps about 8-10 years ago with some success, but once termites were stopped altogether the numbers produced with consistency dropped back noticeably. Very impressive results were attained up until the termites stopped & then it was far more sporadic. I don't doubt that they can be bred without termites, but to do so is significantly reducing their best prospects of regular success compared to with a regular termite supply. Even with termites, they are far from an easy species to produce in numbers.
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Craig52
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Totally agree Tiaris, another disadvantage is a low fertility rate after 3 years old. Young breeding prs to start off with is a must otherwise you are wasting your time with birds 3 years old and older. Young cocks are a lighter blue than older cocks with older cocks becoming a darker blue each time they moult, hence the darker blue cocks seen at many bird sales are past their use by date imo. Craig.
ps, are we off topic :lolno:
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starman
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Craig52 wrote: I'm sure there is an archives section in the Avicultural Society of Australia web site http://www.birds.org.au . It may have been between 1997 and 2000 plus. Also search my mates name Kevin Western. Craig
Thanks Craig....I had a look there but I think the search function might be "members only".....so I came up dry.


[Craig said.."I did a four page article on this very subject in ASA journal in the 90's,it brings back memories of the bluecap day's. Sorry about the manuscript."]

These 'manuscripts' are treasure to us less experienced people.... apologies not required....

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Avid student of Estrildids in aviculture.
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