What Colour am I ?

Includes Species Profile.
User avatar
garyh
...............................
...............................
Posts: 805
Joined: 11 Sep 2011, 11:05
Location: Montrose, Victoria

Hi Zodiac,i think the question you asked has been well and truly answered,and the bird is an Australian Yellow,as for answering loaded questions on the bird i tried to allow people to do their own home work,there is heaps of info on the net but seems some people dont want to know or dont care to read it,to me there seems to be a small group trying to rename the bird a pied,but as shown by Tiaris they are wrong,everybody has a right to their opinion,but being just an opinion it should not be used to confuse new breeders nor disrespect the original breeder of the bird,this is my opinion,probable going to get jumped on but so long as it puts emphasis on the Australian Yellow name i dont care,cheers garyh
User avatar
Craig52
...............................
...............................
Posts: 4979
Joined: 11 Nov 2011, 19:26
Location: victoria

Well said Gary,no one is trying to change the name of the Australian yellow. The name calling happened with the Australian yellow blue and the Cinnamon as well with some getting really angry.
Everyone has an opinion but it always comes back to the original name of probably who bred them first years ago.
I was just implying that what we call AY from original birds seems to be changing to look more like a pied bird. They do have pied birds in the US and Europe though. Cheers Craig
User avatar
finchbreeder
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 11489
Joined: 27 Jun 2009, 20:00
Location: Midwest of West. Aust. Coast
Location: Midwest of West.Aust.Coast

No one wants to change the name. As Gary and Craig and T and I have all said. The bird is called an "Australian Yellow" the breeder has the right to name as he/she sees fit. What is being discussed is what the bird is genetically and visually. A Rainbow Budgerigar is not a rainbow, and a George Zebra finch is not George. They are genetically and visually, a mix of mutations and an unusual mutation respectively. And no one seems to get offended when people discuss their genetic and visual makeup. Having read a great deal of information on the net and in books and sent queries to ABK magazine I find all have confilicting opinions or admit to needing to speak to better qualified people, so it seems obvious that the experts can not agree either.
LML
LML
User avatar
nxe04d
...............................
...............................
Posts: 69
Joined: 25 May 2010, 19:27
Location: Bellbird Heights NSW

Most breeders do not fully understand the genetics that define the Australian Yellow mutation. Firstly the Australian Yellow (AY) is Automosal Recessive in reproduction (Genetically). The AY is what in other species is a Black Eyed Yellow (or Black Eyed Clear, Genetically). How the colour modification works is that Eumelanin (Dark Pigment) is reduced at the skin level in the melanocytes meaning that there is no or extremely low amounts of melanin produced. This means that a pure Australian Yellow should have no signs of blue around head or on the rump, those areas should be pure white. In the Black-headed birds there should be no or very little sign of Black (Dark Pigment) whereas Yellow or Red-headed birds retain full colour as the Carotenoids are unaffected by the non-production of melanin. The white breast in the AY is achieved by the non-production of Eumelanin whereas the White Breasted mutation blocks Phaeomelanin and redirects it into Eumelanin, this means that an AY bred with a White-breasted mutation will produce Purple breasted offspring unless the AY is split to White Breasted. Some birds will have a small purple tinge to the white breast but it should not be purple or lilac as genetically this should not be possible. The small amounts of purple will diminish as the bird ages. The green variegation on the back is also produced by non-production of Eumelanin. This too will diminish as the bird ages it should not increase in green colouring, with some birds 3 years or older having perfectly clear backs and as most Gouldians all other areas of colour may intensify with age. In my opinion (IMO) there has been little understanding by breeders of the difference in the 2 yellow mutations AY and Pastel (Euro Yellow, Yellow Back) resulting in mixing of the 2 mutations together resulting in this Pied, purple breasted, splotchy black coloured heads and some light blue around rump and head areas, as in some examples shown on the internet.It is becoming harder to find pure AY or Australian Recessive Dilutes as breeders mix and match several mutations with little or no knowledge or regard to polluting pure bloodlines. I think it is vitally important for Australian breeders to keep pure mutation bloodlines especially these 2 that only exist in Australia. If we are not careful we will lose these mutations.
The example picture above is called a Yellow although there is bugger all Yellow in it other than a normal coloured bird and a few spots.
In the Zebra Finch the equivalent bird to an AY is the White (Dark Eyed Clear). I am sure you would all agree that if a white Zeb has Grey and Chestnut colouring through it then as a mutation it is not a white Zeb. So similarly if an AY has other colours through it like Black, Light Blue Purple or a solid Green back (not variegation) then to my way of thinking it is not 100% pure AY.
User avatar
finchbreeder
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 11489
Joined: 27 Jun 2009, 20:00
Location: Midwest of West. Aust. Coast
Location: Midwest of West.Aust.Coast

Extremely interesting.
"So similarly if an AY has other colours through it like Black, Light Blue Purple or a solid Green back (not variegation) then to my way of thinking it is not 100% pure AY."
But all split AY do have these colours, and so do may AY's, which is where the discussion keeps coming from.
LML
LML
User avatar
Craig52
...............................
...............................
Posts: 4979
Joined: 11 Nov 2011, 19:26
Location: victoria

Very well explained nxe04d, my thoughts exactly regarding inter breeding of the two different yellow mutations we have here in Australia but it also includes the Australian dilute backed which quite possibly has been bred into the cocktail.
Craig :thumbup:
User avatar
nxe04d
...............................
...............................
Posts: 69
Joined: 25 May 2010, 19:27
Location: Bellbird Heights NSW

"A Rainbow Budgerigar is not a rainbow, and a George Zebra finch is not George. They are genetically and visually, a mix of mutations and an unusual mutation respectively."
My point is exactly as you have described. These so called Pied birds are not pure AY they are a mix of mutations (AY x EY) So they are neither AY, EY or Pied. Whereas in the US and Europe the true Pied Gouldian exists.
AY are Automosal Recessive so need one gene from each parent to express the colour, created by the action of Eumelanin non- production caused at skin level in the melanocytes. So a split will only carry one gene, therefore melanocytes will produce Eumelanin allowing dark (normal) pigment to show itself.
IMO pure AY should not show these colours, if they have EY bloodlines in them then they will show colour as the way that the Pastel (EY) reduces pigment is totally different genetically and in very different percentages to AY.
User avatar
nxe04d
...............................
...............................
Posts: 69
Joined: 25 May 2010, 19:27
Location: Bellbird Heights NSW

Thanks Craig agree with you. I am a Gouldian breeder specifically concentrating on pure AY and Australian Recessive Dilute Backed. I have done a considerable amount of research on both mutations. I never mix mutations and only outcross to pure normal Gouldians. I feel this is very important or we will end up losing our "Australia Only" occurring mutations.
User avatar
jpandkt08
...............................
...............................
Posts: 15
Joined: 07 Aug 2010, 21:26
Location: Tanah merah, Qld

nxe04d wrote: 02 May 2019, 21:09 Thanks Craig agree with you. I am a Gouldian breeder specifically concentrating on pure AY and Australian Recessive Dilute Backed. I have done a considerable amount of research on both mutations. I never mix mutations and only outcross to pure normal Gouldians. I feel this is very important or we will end up losing our "Australia Only" occurring mutations.
Hello,
I found your comments while searching for info on Australian yellows. I wonder could you please tell me how I can pick an Australian yellow hen as compared to a euro yellow? Will she have a white head, or can they also have red or yellow as hens? And should I be looking for the odd green streak feather perhaps?
Thanks in advance
User avatar
finchbreeder
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 11489
Joined: 27 Jun 2009, 20:00
Location: Midwest of West. Aust. Coast
Location: Midwest of West.Aust.Coast

Both can come in all 3 head colours. An Australian Yellow should always have a clear white chest (but some are a bit bluish)
LML
Post Reply

Return to “Gouldian”