Pairing Gouldians for colors

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Jessica
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Craig52 wrote: 31 Dec 2022, 17:22 Agree contact the seller. There is no such thing as split to green and you can't get a split Euro yellow.
The breeder said those tags are only used to help him keep track of the individual birds and in no way represent their breeding other than keeping immediate families from breeding. WHEW!
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finchbreeder
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I am a Finchbreeder, daughter of a Budgiebreeder and a Parrotbreeder. I totally get it.
My mother, my daughter and I are genetics tragics. While the 2 older generations (me in particular) muck up sometimes. The daughter has a uni distinction in Genetics and is working as an Environmental Scientist in Queensland. So I double get it.
LML
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Jessica
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I've been studying! Are there any Gouldian colors that should not breed? I’ve read 2Factor blue should not breed with another 2Factor blue. Are there other color combinations which should be avoided?

When new to Gouldians, I read never breed red head with black head (or something similar) because female babies would die and male babies 50% would die. These are the kinds of things I'd like to avoid by keeping any bad color combinations in separate aviaries/cages.

I have a pair of Gouldians arriving which are blue back straw head (I don't know breast color). Is it safe for them to breed and would I get the same color as them (or close)? I tried using the http://www.gouldianfinches.eu/en/geneti ... a/english/ but it doesn't have straw head for a selection.

Knowing any Gouldian color combinations which should be kept apart will help me decide cage assignments as well! :D
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Craig52
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Hi Jessica, for a start only males can be double factor so males won't breed. Hens are always single factor and so are single factor cocks.
Double factor male birds are bred from a single factor female and a single male but not all males will be double factor in the young.
I don't know what you are calling straw head. Blue gouldians can't produce red so the red does become straw or a biscuit colour. To understand gouldian mutations you must know the mode of inheritance. Blue gouldians are autosomal recessive so you only need one parent to be blue and all young will be split blue. Two blues produce all young blues. Euro yellows are sexlinked dominant recessive but you will need to read up on them because l will need a long time to explain it. Cheers hope that helps 👍
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Craig52
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Oh and DF blue is or has to be the to different mutations in one meaning DF Euro and blue. In this bird it's colour is generally white.
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finchbreeder
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Personal opinion only.
There are no Gouldian colour combinations that have to be kept apart.
However - if you like a colour combination and want that colour. Put two birds that look like what you want together.
The only reason not to pair birds is if they produce weak and sickly birds in consecutive nests. 1 "bad" nest can be due to lack of something in the diet.
2 or more tends to be incompatable or weak genes.
LML
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Craig52
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Fb, in America yes but here in Australia we have Australian yellows that should be kept away from Euro yellows otherwise we will lose our Australian yellow mutation to cocktails of rubbish.
Jessica is in the USA
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finchbreeder
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Craig 100% agree here in Aust re the Yellows.
Answer above was in relation to Jessica's situation.
LML
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Jessica
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craig52 and finchbreeder ... wow, a lot of great information and I went back to studying after Craig's first response. Craig said, "To understand gouldian mutations you must know the mode of inheritance. " So true! Gouldian colors and genetics is far deeper than I ever imagined!
Don't believe everything you see or hear on the Internet. _George Washington
That quote is my motto, finchbreeder. :-) ... because I come across things like this (attached) which tends to make me think I should be careful in who I let breed whom:
mismatched head colors.jpg
breeding blue.jpg

I even read a post here about breeding blues and how it can be a problem. There is also breeder from the UK who warns against breeding visibly blue to another visible blue but I consider YOU HERE in Australia as the authorities on Gouldians so we'll let them choose their mates or keep them separate if we want to perpetuate a specific color combo and only stop them from breeding again if the resulting babies are weak.

I am VERY GLAD I checked with you all! Thank you so very much.
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finchbreeder
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The problem is that when a new mutation is established, it is generally done with closely related birds, due to the small numbers showing the mutation. While this is the quick way go about it, it also risks any weak genes showing up. So out crossing with unrelated birds is a more effective but slower way to go about it. Some people who develop mutations are not real cluey re genetics so do it the easy way, and some are just interested in the quick buck.
NOTE - breeding with related birds will not automatically result in weak chicks, weak genes must be there in the first place for this to occur. But the smaller gene pool will bring weaknesses to the fore faster.
LML
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