Rare species...

[finchbreeder]

I have not personally had the abuse due to some idiots own fault, but know of several people who have.
Bird dealers/pet shops are a necessity as already stated. And yes they are more expensive and you can't see the birds "natural" habitat (where they come from) but you can find the stuff you can't get elsewhere sometimes and you can get it now.
Or you can keep asking everyone you know where you can get whatever you want and eventually source it at a cheaper price and maybe at some distance and time down the track.
Which route we take is an individual choice.
I use both at different times, and both have proven both good and bad.
Observe and stay with what works for you.
LML

[cranberry]

I would like to say that as much as everyone thinks some dealers are shonky, there are just as many private breeders going around that are shonky also. Some people think that because they buy from a breeder then all is good. What a load of BS. Some of the breeder setups I have seen would not even be fit for a family of maggots. The only advice that works is "buyer beware" and go in with eyes, ears and nostrils open. Think with your head, not your heart.

[E Orix]

Cranberry
You are being to polite,sadly our hobby has far too many shifty truth benders.
For every bad dealer there is probably 100 bad operators out there who will not or can't tell the truth.
I get so annoyed when I hear people say oh those birds were old and no good so I unloaded them on to a dealer. I do not know why they feel this is correct as some poor person will buy them thinking that they are still breeding age. The dealer buys them in good faith but will most likely cop the wrath and the untruthful so called breeder walks away and still thinks they are lily white.
I have a very large aviary holding many birds,except for the rarer species all the other birds are caught and sold every 3 years(use a year ring).At least I know people are buying birds that are still young enough to breed for them.The only exception are Blue Faced P/Finches and they are moved on after one season as by their 3rd year they are just about finished as breeders,they look great but generally only produce small clutches if any at all.
Our hobby faces many hurdles and we must do the right thing because generally the ones who get caught are the newer keepers and they need all the assistance we can give.

[cranberry]

Too true! I know of one backyard budgie breeder that removes the rings off his budgies after they are 5 or 6 years old and offloads them to unsuspecting buyers as "ready to breed". Downright disgusting practice!

[JohnP]

E Orix, some very good words of wisdom. As a relatively new keeper (not breeder) of finchs I often wonder what the industry scrupples are like compare to the construction industry where I work and your email highlights that no matter what you do in life there are those that are honest and fortright and those that should be run out. Thankyou for considering those like me that are novices and generally have to take the word of sellers at birds shows, pet shops and breeder sellers that the goods are sound. As per previous post 'go in with eyes open' etc.

[gomer]

petshops have there place.Before i got contacts i bought some good birds through bird dealers.The worst mistake people make is buying cheap birds i think.Because alot of the time they are cheap for a reason.Maybe old,or same sex prs,or found there way into a aviary.If your lucky they are cheap just because the person wants a easy sale.I hate people hagleing over a couple of dollars.For a good pr of birds.

[Jayburd]

fully agree with you cranberry!!!!

I once met a guy who was giving his birds away free - this was before I knew anything so I was not wary (stupid me.). I asked for a pair of long tails, white chested gouldian & normal gouldian. what I got was:

1 pair painteds, 2 white chest goulds, 3 normal goulds, and a pair of tri coloured nuns! The emblemas, white chests, nuns and 1 normal gouldian did not survive - in fact the cock painted was missing an entire foot. they died after 1 day.

I'm not saying anything against dealers in general, just that they are more expensive, and therefore it is unlikely that they will get as many buyers as the bigger breeders. also, since the dealers should be able to sell large numbers of birds due to the fact that people sell to them to BE sold on again, which they do, they should be able to make them cheaper than the breeder who may not be able to breed in bulk.

I have nothing against dealers, we do need them, and yes, ace IS one of the better ones.

[Jayburd]

fully agree with you cranberry!!!!

I once met a guy who was giving his birds away free - this was before I knew anything so I was not wary (stupid me.). I asked for a pair of long tails, white chested gouldian & normal gouldian. what I got was:

1 pair painteds, 2 white chest goulds, 3 normal goulds, and a pair of tri coloured nuns! The emblemas, white chests, nuns and 1 normal gouldian did not survive - in fact the cock painted was missing an entire foot. they died after 1 day.

I'm not saying anything against dealers in general, just that they are more expensive, and therefore it is unlikely that they will get as many buyers as the bigger breeders. also, since the dealers should be able to sell large numbers of birds due to the fact that people sell to them to BE sold on again, which they do, they should be able to make them cheaper than the breeder who may not be able to breed in bulk.

I have nothing against dealers, we do need them, and yes, ace IS one of the better ones.

[cranberry]

There is a dealer in Adelaide who has far superior birds than any I have seen from some "backyard breeders" and other dealers for that matter. He tends to pick the best and reject the rest. I have usually been most impressed by the birds he has and it is a joy to wander in there and just have a look at the stock he has. The premium price you pay is a small price to pay if you want quality birds. That's my opinion. I usually go there if I want quality and I don't even bother seeking out backyard breeders. Not all dealers are like this and there are some that I just refuse to buy from.

Honestly, if you are not willing to fork out an extra $20 to get that quality bird you really want then you need to re-assess why you are in this hobby. What's $20 these days? You'll probably find it in the gutters if you look hard enough.

Just my 2c worth...

[Diane]

Ive had the good fortune to get my gouldian starter birds from a breeder in the Barossa Valley and they have done really well.
My other birds have come from private sellers, dealers and the local bird places, on the whole Ive been lucky and not lost too many.

I have a very large aviary holding many birds,except for the rarer species all the other birds are caught and sold every 3 years(use a year ring).At least I know people are buying birds that are still young enough to breed for them.

This is something Im going to be doing too.

The only exception are Blue Faced P/Finches and they are moved on after one season as by their 3rd year they are just about finished as breeders,they look great but generally only produce small clutches if any at all.

Interesting fact. I will be getting a pair of these.......soon I hope, just waiting for the breeder to email me.